Cutting Shotgun Barrels

[Steve]

If you have a cylinder bored shotgun you can add some choke, provided that the barrel has enough "meat" near the muzzle. It's called jug choking, and involves boring near the end of the barrel out a small amount but leaving the very end at the original diameter.

Chokes at the light end, IC / 1/4 up to Modified / 1/2 have the most effect, like many things it's a case of diminishing returns. I like to shoot game with 1/4 or 1/2 choke, they give nice patterns. Tight chokes can't fire full sized slugs, but rifled slugs will happily go through 1/4 choke, worth remembering if your country allows slug hunting. The UK doesn't, we can only get slugs on FAC for target shooting, and it's not easy.

Many years ago I remember Brenneke solid slugs, the ones with the felt wad screwed to the back, hitting playing cards at 50yds - pretty impressive for a smooth bore gun and would be great medicine for wild hogs or escaped domestic pigs.

[CharlesHarris]

Slugs are widely used for deer hunting in the us. In a typical bead sighted, smoothbore, choked sporting gun with 1/4 or 1/2 choke, aiming with the bead sight only, typical five-shot groups are in the range of 10cm at 30 metres, and in proportion to 50-60 metres.

Using smoothbore barrels with rifle sights, US law enforcement officers are trained to engage threats with shotgun slug fire to 100 metres if a rifle is not available. 12-ga. slugs are effective in deflating automobile tyres, whereas rifle and handgun fire of less than .45 caliber is not.

[Mortblanc]

Not firing slugs through a full choke barrel is another of the internet myths about the shotgun. One of the most accurate slug shooters I ever owned was a Browning A5 with an extremely full choke.

The slugs are lead, they squeeze through the choke with no problem. That is why you use lead!

And the biggest improvement in slug accuracy will come from adding sights to the gun, not by removing the choke.

And those chokes up to 1/2 having the most effect??? Yes, they are much better than straight cylinder bore, but I am finding that what is labeled on the barrel is not what you are getting on the target. Not a single choke tube I have, in either of three different brands, gave the pellet count it claimed.

The 1/2 choke labels all gave 1/4 choke patterns (55%) and the full choke labels gave 1/2 choke or less (58-60%). My 1/4 choke barely gave 40% pattern.

What is stamped on the barrel or pressed into the tube means nothing, you have to shoot the patterns and count the pellets. Choke is measured on the target, not by the diameter of the muzzle. The "in general the constriction of .006 gives bla, bla bla..." means absolutely nothing!

[Talon]

Some very good information Mort.Funnily enough I do have an A5 with a full choke and never thought it would be safe to (theoretically) fire slugs through it,i take it a .690 ball would be just as safe as a slug?.
I'm glad after reading this thread that the only cylinder bore gun I have is a cheap Cooey, though I have been dabbling with the idea of soldering a Polychoke on to it to make it more versatile.
I was also considering doing it to my A5 but I would hate to ruin the lines of it,though it would greatly increase it's versatility.

[Steve]

(20 March 2015, 16:49)Mortblanc Wrote: Not firing slugs through a full choke barrel is another of the internet myths about the shotgun. One of the most accurate slug shooters I ever owned was a Browning A5 with an extremely full choke.

The slugs are lead, they squeeze through the choke with no problem. That is why you use lead!

Perhaps you should share your findings with Benelli

http://www.benelliusa.com/customer-service/faq

Quote:Which chokes are recommended for slugs?
These chokes are recommended for slugs:
4 notches = Improved cylinder
5 notches = Cylinder

A cylinder choke is recommended for shooting rifled slugs in a smooth-bore barrel. Sabot slugs should only be shot through our fully-rifled slug barrels.

It is not safe to shoot slugs through chokes tighter than those listed here.

or perhaps to a company that specializes in chokes;

http://www.choketube.com/choke-tube-prod...ubes&mf=10

Quote:Slugs, sabots, and rifled slugs are not to be used in any choke constriction tighter than Improved Cylinder.

You may well have had good results with some slugs, "rifled" types conform to chokes quite well, but not all slugs are like that. Something as solid as a round lead ball in a plastic wad will easily plug a choked barrel or damage it.

(20 March 2015, 16:49)Mortblanc Wrote: And those chokes up to 1/2 having the most effect??? Yes, they are much better than straight cylinder bore, but I am finding that what is labeled on the barrel is not what you are getting on the target. Not a single choke tube I have, in either of three different brands, gave the pellet count it claimed.

The 1/2 choke labels all gave 1/4 choke patterns (55%) and the full choke labels gave 1/2 choke or less (58-60%). My 1/4 choke barely gave 40% pattern.

What is stamped on the barrel or pressed into the tube means nothing, you have to shoot the patterns and count the pellets. Choke is measured on the target, not by the diameter of the muzzle. The "in general the constriction of .006 gives bla, bla bla..." means absolutely nothing!

The cartridge itself has a huge effect, but the manufacturers can't know what you're using, so they label based on the physical dimensions of the choke - they have no choice. A cheap fibre wad cartridge loaded with soft lead shot will give a wider pattern than a quality plastic wad cartridge loaded with round, even, hardened shot. Even so, what I wrote about "diminishing returns" is correct, the first degrees of choke have more effect than the tightest, I'm not saying that 1/2 choke will throw a tighter pattern than full choke, just that the difference between no choke and 1/2 choke is more pronounced than the difference between 1/2 and full. If this wasn't the case then we could just keep tightening the choke and getting tighter and tighter patterns - but this doesn't work, tight chokes damage the shot more than open chokes and damaged shot fly out of the pattern.

Another problem with tight chokes is that the shot is less evenly distributed, they tend to throw a dense pattern in the middle and less around the outside - this is not useful unless you are an expert shot.

[Mortblanc]

Every company is concerned with liability issues in this day and age. No one wants to be sued and I don't blame them.

However, there is another thread we just had here that speaks of firing all sorts of things up to an including frozen hot dogs from the shotgun and no one seems to be concerned with that, only with what I post.

And I will point out that I have a Carolson rifled choke tube made specifically for shooting slugs and other solid objects from a shotgun barrel and it has more constriction than any of my full choke tubes or my turkey X-full tube.

The use of the tight chokes is for just the situation you stated in the last paragraph. In a survival situation one will make their shots at stationary targets whenever possible. You are not wing shooting on the clays range. You want the shot tight and you want it consistent.

I want the shot in a pattern that is close enough that I can move it around like a bullet and use the sights to AIM the group. I also want the group tight enough that my shots at 50 yards will bring game to the table. I want to reach out and kill the bunnies while they are sitting at 40 yards, not on the run at 35. My survival shotgun applications all have sights of one form or another.

I do not even set my survival shotguns up for wing shooting. That is a completely separate category of firearm.

I do hunt with them, however. We hunt a lot of turkey over here and the requirements of turkey hunting are very similar to the needs of survival shotgunning. Big birds of 20#, large shot sizes, targets sometimes 60 yards distant, tight shot patterns, sights on the guns.

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If it is not for you or your situation that is fine. It simply shows the extent to which a shotgun can be tailored to a specific need or situation.

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And do note that in 30 seconds I can swap the barrels out and be shooting on the clays range. It is all part of the versitility of the shotgun

[Steve]

(22 March 2015, 19:41)Mortblanc Wrote: And do note that in 30 seconds I can swap the barrels out and be shooting on the clays range. It is all part of the versitility of the shotgun

Absolutely, very versatile indeed.

( even more so with a moderator fitted )

[CharlesHarris]

US type "Foster" slugs are mostly a hollow shell and the "rifling" swaged on them is not to impart rotation, but to ease their extrusion through the choke, and they may be safely fired through full choke barrels and will give satisfactory results. Different brands vary in slug diameter, so it pays to experiment to determine which brand is most accurate in your gun. Diameters of US made 12-ga. slug ammunition varies from. 690" to. 740"! The RWS Brenneke with wad attached has also shot well in full choke barrels in my experience. I am not familiar with other slugs which may be available in UK or the EU, but my understanding is that CIP test protocols require that slug ammunition be safe in any standard choke.

Before WW2 solid lead round ball ammunition was commonly loaded with an undersized all which would pass through the choke. Where people get into trouble is in handloading cast solid balls larger than choke diameter, of scrap lead which is harder than pure lead, or in attempting to shoot. 44-40 or other bulleted ammunition in. 410 bore shotguns, which is a sure recipe to burst the barrel.