What common calibres are in the UK?

[Devonian]

So to look at it another way, the vast majority of bolt action rifles for sale (80% of them) are neither of those 2 calibres.....

[Midnitemo]

there are dozens of other calibres.... .22 lr is a biggy percentage wise and .243 makes a reasonable showing too but 25.06/257 Roberts/220 swift/6.5 carcano/260 rem/7mm the numbers are tiny....there are dozens more I've not mentioned with a tiny smattering for sale

[Devonian]

(4 April 2015, 17:32)Midnitemo Wrote: there are dozens of other calibres.... .22 lr is a biggy percentage wise and .243 makes a reasonable showing too but 25.06/257 Roberts/220 swift/6.5 carcano/260 rem/7mm the numbers are tiny....there are dozens more I've not mentioned with a tiny smattering for sale

I guessed as much, was only joking with you

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

[Mortblanc]

(4 April 2015, 17:11)Devonian Wrote: So to look at it another way, the vast majority of bolt action rifles for sale (80% of them) are neither of those 2 calibres.....

Looking at it in another way, all those odd ball calibers might be the reason the other 80% are for sale!

We have had our problems with ammo supply over here in the past 6 years and if one observes closely one learns a lot. It is very much like being in a SHTF situation where ammo production has stopped and what you have is all you will ever have.

We are famous for "buying it cheap and stacking it deep" but there are a large number of people that never worry about buying ammo until they are on the way to the range. If they find out there is a shortage they are outraged, but it is useless rage. Not one thing they can do about an empty shelf.

It has also affected the sales of new guns, with /22 rimfire gun sales taking a steep nose dive and preppers rethinking their ammo stash.

What I have observed is that there are a good number of very useful calibers that are reasonably popular but overlooked as primary hunting, defense, target arms due to the overwhelming popularity of the current military calibers, 7.62/.308 and 5.56/.223, and in our case 9mm pistol caliber.

There were certain calibers that remained on the shelf and available when no one could find a single round of .308 or .223 anywhere in the U.S.

Over here it was .270 Winchester, 7x57 Mauser, .300 Winchester magnum, 7mm Remington magnum, 30-30 Winchester and in pistols, the ever faithful .38spl. and 32acp (7.62 auto). No matter how scarce the other stuff there was always a box of those calibers on the shelf.

Now in your case it might be different. Perhaps the ever faithful .303, the before mentioned 25-06, or the .243.

But that does not mean one will stumble over that ammo or the firearm that shoots it on a regular basis after SHTF. It might mean they are the least popular, and will never be encountered.

I feel the prepping reloader should be thinking about how many empty cases he will find in a given caliber, and how many empty guns he will find post event. The primary goal is to have ammo for the empty rifle the other guy abandoned.

Or to be able to cobble together reloads for that abandoned rifle.

Were I in your shoes I think I might reason a bit differently than most.

Whatever rifle I chose I would stock reloading components deep for my particular firearm. I would buy a set of dies and a bullet mold in .308 and .223 even if they were not my principal caliber and keep a small store of suitable powder.

I would study up on field reloading methods and the caliber interchangeability we have noted. (If I find just one empty case for an oddball rifle I can reload that case up to 20 times before the brass gives out! That is a lot of meat on the table!)

I would then concentrate on my shotguns as the primary survival/defense/food gathering weapon.

The guns are plentiful, the ammo is common and relatively cheap, you have no restrictions on the number of rounds you can buy/possess and it is the most efficient gun to use in 90% of the situations a prepper will encounter.

Like I have said before, I live in the woods on a small holding, I have access to thousands of acres of public hunting reserve and public ranges, I have a gun room full of firearms from .22lr to AKs, long range rifles and assorted hunting and surplus rifles, the most used of them will always be one of the 12gauge shotguns.

But that is just my opinion. I might be wrong.

However, when both of my grandfathers came out of the Great Depression, after going through financial collapse and feeding their families mostly on wild game for nearly 10 years, both men had shotguns in their hands and not a center fire rifle in sight.

[Steve]

(4 April 2015, 19:05)Mortblanc Wrote: However, when both of my grandfathers came out of the Great Depression, after going through financial collapse and feeding their families mostly on wild game for nearly 10 years, both men had shotguns in their hands and not a center fire rifle in sight.

And that, friends, is bloody good advice. As usual.

[Mortblanc]

Both also owned .38 caliber revolvers, but that is a moot point for you fellows.

After I was an older teenager both of them were gifted with .22 rim fire rifles, but I can honestly say I never saw either of them take the rifles out of the closet. They had no use for them.

I do not know what happened to either of the rifles but I have the shotgun from one and the pistol from the other. Both are older than myself but still used on a regular basis.

So how long will your firearms last? Both of those are 65+ and going strong under regular use.

A couple of years back I found a coffee tin filled with shells that had come to me with the shotgun. That gun was handed down to me in 1976, and I know that some of the 00 buckshot shells had been in that can since I was born. I remembered them distinctly from my childhood because they were green paper hulls, with a rolled crimp, that had swollen and shrunk making the buckshot load appear lumpy.

I stuck them in a heavy old single shot that I keep for such things and fired a few for effect. Every one of those 30-60 year old shells fired like they had been purchased yesterday.

Which also proves that your ammo will last a while too.

[Phil]

Common calibres I would consider are 9mm,.38 sp/.357 mag, .44 sp/.44 mag,.45acp,you can find all these in carbine or rifle and are easy to reload with the right equipment.
Rifle calibres .223,7.62,.243,.270,.303, 30-06,and .22lr.
If you only have one rifle in each of the bottle necked calibres,then you only need to neck size the case as it is fire formed to the chamber.
If more than one rifle,you might find that you are very lucky and they will all accept the neck sized cases,but its very unlikely,so you'll need to separate each rifles cases.

[Mortblanc]

Much of the "common caliber" thing has to do with the place where you live.

As a rural dweller in the US I am faced with the presence of more firearms than you folks.

I am assured that each and every house on my lane contains a shotgun. 12 bore will dominate but there are many 20 bores around and many of the families have a .410 for dispatching small critters and because the wife/girls can not stand recoil.

Almost every house will contain a .22lr, "just because", or "just in case". They are just there because they are there and require no reason for their existence.

80-90% of the homes will possess a center fire rifle. A "deer gun" is the common reference. A very large portion of them will be 30-30 lever action rifles.

(A couple of years back I did an unscientific test which involved me mentioning a hunting trip and waiting for the inevitable response of "Oh I have a deer rifle, its a 30-30". It seems that almost everyone I know owns a 30-30 even if they possess another deer rifle of some kind.)

Dedicated hunters will have one of the more powerful. cartridges of some designation. The ever present .308/30-06, .243, .270, 7mm magnum, .300 magnum or whatever their favorite happens to be.

I have noted lately that many of the older generation, folks my age, as well as the younger set have become converts to what is termed the "modern sporting rifle", a platform that looks military but is offered in semi-auto civilian trim. That includes the civilian AK, AR, G3, FN and other types.

I am aware of at least a half dozen folks on my road that own such rifles and there are probably others that are more closed mouthed and secretive.

I have not touched on the presence of pistols at all. Those devices will be found in every caliber imaginable, but 9mm will dominate, closely followed by .38 special caliber and all the others trailing off behind. Cost is the dominate factor here. Semi-auto pistols are cheaper to make and sell than revolvers, so 9mm has gained a lead over the tried and true .38spl which is mostly a revolver cartridge. .40S&W caliber is also very popular here. It is a favorite of the law enforcement and government agencies. It is an excellent cartridge, and in my opinion much better than the 9mm.

Pistol caliber carbines are popular in some circles, mostly the circles that want a rifle and pistol for the same caliber. My opinion is that both devices have different uses and they do not overlap well. The purpose of a pistol is close self defense. The purpose of a rifle is to eliminate a threat at long range. If your rifle is restricted to 150 yards it can not fulfill its function. If your pistol is marginal for close defense (9mm/.38spl) it is not a good choice for work at longer ranges.

I do not find many people on my little road that use these dual purpose devices. I do not see them in the hunting field or at the range. They are a cute concept but they do not work.

And keep in mind that most of the worlds military systems dropped the use of the sub-machine gun in 9mm chambering at the end of WW2 and replaced them with select fire carbines of reduced power rifle strength. The pistol caliber shoulder weapon is now relegated to the duty of clearing elevators and room to room security activities by specialized units.

This is even though the Brits developed the STEN gun as a principle weapon, the USSR issued 30,000,000 sub machine guns and the US built 8,000,000 M1 carbines (it is a pistol strength cartridge) during the war.

The German development of a mid-power rifle cartridge in a select fire weapon rendered the pistol caliber carbine obsolete more then 70 years ago.

BTW, that 30-30 lever action rifle cartridge is almost the exact ballistic equal to the 7.62x39 AK cartridge. Fancy that!

And it is one of the types that you are allowed in the UK with no great fanfare, it shoots fast and is good for any game found in the UK.

Embrace the cowboy!

[CharlesHarris]

MB has hit the nail squarely on the head! I have little to add.

Here in West Virginia and adjacent counties in western Maryland or south-central Pennsylvania the firearms you most likely run into at estate, barn and yard sales are .30-'06 or .30-30 "deer rifles", .22 rimfire rifles of all descriptions, 12-bore shotguns of all descriptions and either .38 Special or .45 ACP pistols or revolvers which Dad or Grandfather carried as a cop or in the Army.

You run into regional preferences for .32 revolvers, .270 rifles and 16-, .410 or 20-bore shotguns but the "Evil Black Rifles" and 9mm Parabellum or .40 S&W "Modern Cop Guns" are seldom seen outside a gun shop and are seldom purchased except by except those whose minds are corrupted by reading too many newstand gun magazines written by bar room commandos...

I would agree that the gentleman farmer armed with a .22 rifle, a 12-bore shotgun and either a .30-30, .303 or .30-'06 rifle and any serviceable pistol or revolver of .22 LR or larger calibre is adequately equipped. We must not over-think this sort of thing...

[Mortblanc]

There are tons of "evil black rifles" being used in my area. They are selling hot and heavy and they are everywhere.

I can not remember the last time I went for a shoot at the range and did not find someone there sighting in or test firing one.

They have lost the stigma of being owned by warped individuals in my neck of the woods and are being used by young and old.

They are proving to be excellent deer rifles with adequate power and range.

Their accuracy out to 500 yards, with little felt recoil, is also amazing.

One of the reasons they are gaining in popularity is that Winchester no longer offers the 30-30 in a rifle anyone can afford and the Marlin and Henry lever gun is more expensive than the plain Jane AR rifles.

Much of it it economics, as the use of surplus military rifles always has been.