old blackpowder guns

[Timelord]

All good points of discussion guys.

#### I stress that the following is hypothetical only and not in standing with any UK firearms regulations past or current! ####

Some points worth expanding from this IMO are 1) the cost of .410 ammo now will not be relevant PSHTF.
2) The list of good reasons to prefer a 12 gauge now for a host of good reasons will not be as long a list PSHTF.
3) For an all round survival gun then 3/4 ounce of shot is not far off 1 ounce. ie, only 5 lead OO buck balls the size of 9mm submachine bullets all launched simultaneously with one squeeze of the trigger flying towards One - from a range of maybe 15 to 20 feet and fired from a long barreled gun is probably as much cause for consternation as if it was 9 of the same from a 12 gauge. The next squeeze of the trigger releases the next 5. As for spread, then yes it is not as dense as 12 gauge, but at closer more historically recorded likely ranges for civil disorder situations, then it is still quite effective. Anyway - see point 4
4) ## Forget the convention of shot for shotguns or a very large mass of slug in the 12 gauge ## (12g slug which is not often loaded & used in a combat situation) --- Think, smoothbore pump or semi auto (Yes even in the UK) with a caliber of .410 (10.41mm) which is considerable in a long gun firing "BULLETS". ..... In the UK that is the equivalent of saying a pump or "semi auto assault rifle" in smoothbore! <<<

Smoothbore is not necessarily a bad thing at closer combat ranges. It can cause the bullet to be unstable as the distance increases. This is part of the reason for the fall off in accuracy as the distance increases. The instability can cause the bullet to tumble which results in much more traumatic wound channels than with rifled barrel bullets.

Here we have a weapon type as mentioned above that uses easier to aquire shotgun type ammo components than section 1 firearm rounds. (We are talking legally here .. and cheaper too if you buy in reloading components now before TSHTF) and is probably simpler to reload under field conditions and can be run adequately with expedient powders(if a pump gun). The soft lead bullets or ball can be cast around a campfire if necessary and wads can be cut out of numerous materials.

The whole reloading thing is about PSHTF, possibly mobile. Therefore a small hand loader or just a few expedient tools plus preferably a small collar type die for the shell base to be carried in ones kit, combined with a box (1000) of primers (12gauge is standard size) - is all that is necessary to keep this weapon format in operation for a long time. It uses far less propellant than the larger caliber 12 gauge which uses a considerable amount per shell compared to the usual pistol or rifle calibers

Just think how useful this weapon format might have been historically in the 18th and early 19th Centuries if it had been available. It is like a cross between a modern repeating carbine and some aspects of older blackpowder ballistics. An improvement in propellants but with smaller projectiles than BP muskets and military pistols. Ideal for closer range repeating action and lightweight and a handy size. Doubles up using shot for hunting without longer range rifle ability. No bulky box magazine to get in the way and impede gun position from cover.

I am a fan of the 12gauge, but it has some definite drawbacks when it comes down to ammo and weapon bulk/weight. This has always been an issue for it in the military but was offset by its incorporation as part of a squad fire team. The ammo could be spread amongst the squad if need be and the shotgunner was not having to tackle situations on his own. As a lonesome or very small group of survivors of a SHTF event, then this offsetting of the bulkier weapon systems disadvantages may not be possible. Because of this, many preppers/survivalists do not choose the shotgun for their primary weapon if having to choose one longarm above all others due to a dire emergency, like Get out of Dodge on foot.. This is a shame as the smoothbore weapon multi projectile launching system which the shotgun is and its historical proof of effectiveness has much to commend it if the conventional view of the shotgun can be put aside and if the economics/practicality of use now before any SHTF event - can be divorced from these same aspects for after any such unfortunate SHTF event has evolved.

Thankyou for the input folks, TL.