what if this was after TSHTF?

[Devonian]

Rain water, flood water and wind does not generally damage roads.

Most road damage is caused by:

- HGV's turning
- Burst Water Pipes
- Sub-zero temperatures (after wet weather)
- Water scour (large volumes of fast moving water)

(31 October 2014, 17:43)NorthernRaider Wrote: Dev, just thinking about your comments above, some things last, some don't, up here when they built the Tees flyover on the A19 within 7 years it was falling apart, some columns sinking, others cracked and all the bearings to roadbed sat on failed completely meaning the deck could have collapsed within only a few years. And the new entrance road to teesside park has to be replared almost every year as it keeping subsiding badly.
Both sit only a mile from the Victorian built transporter bridge and newport Bridges which only need a lick of paint

Yes totally agree with this and this is my point, any problems with infrastructure failing will generally be localised (ie: the entrance to the park, but not the approach roads or the estate itself), you will not see "widespread or complete failure" and disintegration of roads and bridges.

(31 October 2014, 18:35)NorthernRaider Wrote: Dev what I think you MAY be missing is not the vulnerability of solid great stone, concrete or steel structures standing in magnificent isolation, but the roads and rail tracks that serve them, thats the weak point, roads and rail track beds are lined by fields, trees, buildings, foliage, they are often with drains, sewers, storm drains, cable ducting etc under them. they face a continuous onslaught from play overgrowth ( Think how destructive IVY is at ruining mortar and brickwork) flooding, leaf fall, land slip, erosion, etc etc etc The bridges may last a 1000 years but without maintenance and regular traffic the roads and trackbeds will disappear.

The bigger the structure, the more issues it is likely to have as it will not be self draining.

But the vast majority of ALL bridges are small single/double arches which are totally self draining due to their arched nature. Hence why they still standing after 100's of years.

As for roads, once you get out of the Cities, Towns and Villages etc, then there normally aren't any surface water drains, rain water does what it does, hits the road, and either drains off the sides of the road, or it runs along the side of the road (due to the road camber which has been around in all roads since Roman times) until it drains away - worst case scenario is the road is flooded for a couple of weeks, but that will not damage the road - as it didn't on the Somerset levels.

(31 October 2014, 18:47)bigpaul Wrote: with no inclement weather and no storms many of these bridges MIGHT last for a long time but life isn't like that, we have lots of Atlantic storms ex hurricanes downgraded which always seem to come from a south westerly direction so hit the West of the country first every time, I am thinking of something like the flooding at Boscastle and the trees and debris that TOOK OUT that old bridge along with all the cars from the car park. then there was the flooding in Somerset and on the Thames, subsidence in Dorset(killed 2 people in a road tunnel) and the train line being washed out at Dawlish and flooded at Cowley Bridge. sure the infrastructure COULD stand for ages but it wont cos its things like weather and storms more than traffic or lack of it which will do the damage and like I said in my OP if this is AFTER TSHTF they wont be repaired so how will that alter your plans?

Boscastle and Lynton/Lynmouth before it are isolated events, yes if it affects you directly, it is catastrophic, but how many people were affected by each event 50, 60?? out of how many million....

The Somerset Levels have always flooded, you've said as much yourself in the past, the subsidence (Cliffs) in Dorset, how many houses were affected?? 2 or 3??

So yes ALL of these things will happen after TSHTF (as they do already), but if you don't live in a flood plain; in a valley; or right next to the coast, then it's not really going to have any direct impact on you.

I know that the point you trying to get across is that things will be 100 times worse after the SHTF because suddenly the local councils will not be maintaining assets and infrastructure, but the truth is that the councils already operative a reactive programme of maintenance, rather than a proactive, so certainly in the next 20 years or so, it is unlikely "if" a major SHTF event happened tomorrow and total societal collapse followed, that we would see any real increase in the number of failure compared with what already happens.

Also I can assure that a lots of the bridge repairs that DCC are attributing the last winter storms, are actually defectives which have been known about for many many many years, but they haven't had the budget to do the works and are using the storms to try and get extra government funding.

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(31 October 2014, 18:47)NorthernRaider Wrote: I like this type of post, Mutual brainstorming to work out various potential outcomes really helps in making choices about Bug out Routes and even the suitability of structures in the long term

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Wish we three were all sat in the pub right now to work out as many scenarios as possible, this is better than chess

Yes, it's good to get the old grey matter working

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OK, here's another way of looking at it, the following You Tube video's are of completely unmaintained roads in Devon, they will not have seen a JCB or manhole cover during their entire existence.......





But as you can see, they are completely passable (with a 4x4)

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