The Dangers of Rebuilding Society

[River Song]

John's original post is fascinating. The earlier comments on complexity is spot on and reminds me of Joseph Tainter's "The Collapse of Complex Societies".

http://monoskop.org/File:Tainter_Joseph_...ieties.pdf

I need to study the rest of the post/thread before I dive in but I would add one thing.
All this is somewhat mechanistic. Fixed Laws of cause and effect in a closed ended system.
But what if its not closed ended?

Probably should not have said that. Please don't let it detract from what looks like being an excellent thread.

[bigpaul]

I can see survivors forming into tribal/local communities, without petrol and diesel travel would be a long winded affair by horseback or bicycle or on foot, without people to clear fallen trees, blocked water courses, overgrowth and rubbish, travel of any kind will be difficult and hard, people wouldn't leave their growing crops and animals for long so I cant see them making long journeys although some basic local trading might go on. initially I see any strangers being treated with suspicion and distrust.

[Scythe13]

RS, that's a point I was trying to make previously on another thread. There are base assumptions at the core of what the reply is. For example, the use of metal, without any reuse or enhancing what has already been extracted. The use of fossil fuels, when other options are available. The lack of electricity, when many generating sources will still be available. The return to how it is right now, instead of being more advanced to how we are now, e.g. no reliance on fossil fuels and extracting metals.

[bigpaul]

it all depends on the survival rate as to how long anything left would last, eventually everything would be used up and further extraction would not be possible without the fuel to run machinery, if any machinery is indeed still working ,and whether there is anything left to extract. it may be up to future generations(if there are any) to form any kind of real civilisation as anyone on this forum would have gone the way of the Do-Do by then, any future civilisations could be hundreds of years in the shaping.