How long post SHTF before a city is safe to re enter?

[NorthernRaider]

and they dont look military or policey either.

[Skvez]

I think it's going to depend very much on the nature of the event and the thing you are going back into the city for.

If there was a pandemic and you managed to isolate yourself from it (rather than being infected and recovering) then re-entering a city is a really bad idea.

If it was a financial collapse and much of the population are still alive on barely adequate government rations then again entering the city might get you in trouble with either gangs or the local militia but there might be some economy (even a black one) for you to trade for whatever item you want (probably a tool as most other items will have been consumed). The risk there is probably being mugged, detained or followed back to your home.

An interesting aspect of one of the resident evil movies was where the roving band of survivors had picked clean all the small villages and towns and had no alternative left but to go into a big city. I can see that scenario happening in certain cases where people don't set up a retreat with adequate food production.

I don't see it being possible for us to come up with a date. It's going to depend on:
Nature of the event
Robustness of Survivors in the city (if we even know!)
Disease outbreaks (if we even know)
Urgency of the item.

[Scythe13]

I'm sorry guys, but this is really a funny thread.

It's given me the image of a load of guys running around the city with bows and arrows, in cycling/climbing/worksite helmets!!! If I was in a city and saw someone walking past looking like that, I'd throw a rock at them and see how effective their silly helmet really is.

If you're walking through a skyscraper area, and a single brick (how many skyscrapers are made from bricks?!?!?!? Or it could be an office chair or something like that) falls from a 10 story building, a small helmet won't protect you. Instead of cracking your skull, it will crush your vertebrae, or cause fatal blunt trauma without the cracked skull....providing it lands on the helmet, instead of on a shoulder or something like that...which is more likely.

Climbing helmets are for when something is slightly above you, like a climbing partner and they cause stones to fall. And even then, if they dislodge something above you, you know you're not safe, even with a helmet. If you take a medium impact (tennis ball sized rock from 5 meters) it still knocks you dizzy pretty badly, and hurts your neck. Image something twice the size, or the same size from higher!!! The same is true with caving and those helmets. They are there for when you bump your head looking up, or not ducking enough to get through a hole.




In regards to entering a city. I'd probably stay nearby for about 3 to 4 days watching for signs of movement and life. Make sure you have plenty of anti-biotics already stacked and with you, then go from there. For me, depending on when I needed stuff, I'd look at going in BEFORE I was in dire need. As BP says, better to make your own. However, it's not always possible.

In regards to the disease questions, I really don't have a clue. But a cold day gives you a better chance of not picking up an airbourne disease.

If possibly, I'd try to get high up to observe the city below me (cliff edge, or skyscraper...something like that). Then I'd use that as a way to check out movement. Late at night would be a vital time to check for lights from fires or torches, especially on a cold night. It will also give you a better view of how the city is in regards to blocked roads and the alike.

Please note, buildings will not be falling down over the course of 2-5 years. Only HUGE levels of vandalism will do that. Rust and the alike will take a rather long time to cause collapses. Just because the scenario is big and scarey, science still applies. Rust takes time, bricks don't crumble quickly. On top of all that, acid rain and such like, will be MASSIVELY reduced, and are thus unlikely to speed the process of building decay.

A city, by structure, should be safe for at least 5 years!!! No need to go out and buy a helmet, unless you're going climbing, caving, or cycling (I've got 3 friends who have had accidents and swear the helmets saved their lives. My fiance, whom is a cycling, has countless others she knows that swear by them).

You'd be best checking out some medical books about the diseases.

[NorthernRaider]

You know Scythe old chap you really do write a load of bollocks sometimes, or dont think before you write, I could tear your post to total pieces but I'll settle for just saying I totally disagree with you this time

[Scythe13]

(17 October 2012, 21:20)NorthernRaider Wrote: You know Scythe old chap you really do write a load of bollocks sometimes, or dont think before you write, I could tear your post to total pieces but I'll settle for just saying I totally disagree with you this time

How?

I'm just speaking from experience, what I've read, and what I've been told. If I'm wrong of have been misinformed, I really would like to know.

[Metroyeti]

If you live in an urban chav enviroment, the normal folk will try and flee when tshf, chavy scrap men tear house to bits for all the scrap, dont know what there doing and cause a gas leak. Ig you do this over a large area there is a risk of these going kaboom. Thats not to mention the random bits of arson that already goes on. Then the looting will start with more arson, we have had riots in the north east before,and im proud to say we didnt join in with las years london riots.

[Ghost]

I've got to admit that my angle on this was more disease based than Chav/looter mad max mutant gang based.

To be honest I'm going to stay as far away as I can get from the cities, but as a prepper I felt it necessary to get the info on the "What if ?" scenario so that I can factor it into my future plans should I ever need to.

There's no such thing as too much knowledge!

[NorthernRaider]

It only takes one normal autumn for thousands of buildings, offices and factories to see their gutters clogged with fallen leaves, the same can be said of millions of drains and gullies. Add a couple of decent winters , bit of snow, bit of frost, bit of hail and tiles, bricks etc will be falling aplenty. As the clogged drain cause rain water and melting snow to find other routes the water will soon undermine foundations, roads, towers, plylons, flyovers etc this will cause concrete spalling and cracking more to fall on peoples bonces. Add vandalism, arson possibly post combat damage, flood damage, no maintenance etc you can be sure there will be glass panels, windows, fascia and shop fronts,guttering, telephone and power cables, bits of slate and tile etc all waiting sods laws opportunity to drop onto your head. The prepper approaching any city after TSHTF is going to approach very cautiously avoiding packs of dogs, unstable ground, damaged building, open spaces where they can be spotted. Given the chance the preppers will approach along old quiet abandoned railway lines, storm drains and tunnels, ALL will be inlit, all will have loose bits of masonary, cracked supports, hanging wires etc. In a world without hospitals and medicines but plenty of diseases a hard hat will protect your head from falling material, it will stop you scraping your noggin on that low roof and getting Weils disease etc into even small cuts n scrapes.
Imagine rummaging around dark unlit properties looking for safe routes of stuff to salvage and you scrape your head on a hanging ceiling tile, one thats been dampened by the weather blowing through open windows and doors, one that a rapid pigeon shit on before you scraped your nut on the tile. Its just as deadly as standing on a rusty nail, shard of glass, splinter of wood etc, kneeling, leaning against, falling onto, etc etc. Injuries to heads can be utterly lethal without a 4 pound lump of cornice smashing your head in.

The climbing hat, site hat, crash helmet will be as essential as gloves, wellies, high boots and dust mask if you decide to go to Harrods and Selfridges.

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Note also that the chartered institute of something or other reported than since 2008 maintenence of buildings is at an all time low because of the reccession, basically no one is taking care of their buildings any more.

[Ghost]

Wanna know what happens to an abandoned city?? Check out Prypiat, the city abandoned after the Chernobyl disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prypiat,_Ukraine

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Many of the building interiors in Pripyat have been vandalized and ransacked over the years. Because the buildings have not been maintained since 1986, the roofs leak, and in the springtime the rooms are flooded with water. Trees can be seen growing on roofs and even inside the buildings. All this adds to the deterioration process; a four-story school collapsed in July 2005.

[bigpaul]

(18 October 2012, 16:26)NorthernRaider Wrote: It only takes one normal autumn for thousands of buildings, offices and factories to see their gutters clogged with fallen leaves, the same can be said of millions of drains and gullies. Add a couple of decent winters , bit of snow, bit of frost, bit of hail and tiles, bricks etc will be falling aplenty. As the clogged drain cause rain water and melting snow to find other routes the water will soon undermine foundations, roads, towers, plylons, flyovers etc this will cause concrete spalling and cracking more to fall on peoples bonces. Add vandalism, arson possibly post combat damage, flood damage, no maintenance etc you can be sure there will be glass panels, windows, fascia and shop fronts,guttering, telephone and power cables, bits of slate and tile etc all waiting sods laws opportunity to drop onto your head. The prepper approaching any city after TSHTF is going to approach very cautiously avoiding packs of dogs, unstable ground, damaged building, open spaces where they can be spotted. Given the chance the preppers will approach along old quiet abandoned railway lines, storm drains and tunnels, ALL will be inlit, all will have loose bits of masonary, cracked supports, hanging wires etc. In a world without hospitals and medicines but plenty of diseases a hard hat will protect your head from falling material, it will stop you scraping your noggin on that low roof and getting Weils disease etc into even small cuts n scrapes.
Imagine rummaging around dark unlit properties looking for safe routes of stuff to salvage and you scrape your head on a hanging ceiling tile, one thats been dampened by the weather blowing through open windows and doors, one that a rapid pigeon shit on before you scraped your nut on the tile. Its just as deadly as standing on a rusty nail, shard of glass, splinter of wood etc, kneeling, leaning against, falling onto, etc etc. Injuries to heads can be utterly lethal without a 4 pound lump of cornice smashing your head in.

The climbing hat, site hat, crash helmet will be as essential as gloves, wellies, high boots and dust mask if you decide to go to Harrods and Selfridges.

---

Note also that the chartered institute of something or other reported than since 2008 maintenence of buildings is at an all time low because of the reccession, basically no one is taking care of their buildings any more.

yet again, i have to say, all the above are good reasons NOT to go into a city post SHTF.