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[Scythe13]

I'll give you a lovely breakdown of most of this Beardyman. One thing to note, he doesn't actually quote his sources of the information.

"An undetermined percentage of steroid abusers may become addicted"
Or they may not be addicted. There is NO evidence of addition via the compound itself. The growth of muscle is addictive, but if you didn't want to get muscular and started taking steds, you wouldn't want to keep taking them at the end of a cycle (period of steroid use, typically 12-16 weeks). After a cycle you normalise (more on this later).

"steroid abusers typically spend large amounts of time and money obtaining the drugs, which is another indication that they may be addicted"
Large amounts of time obtaining the drug? WHAT?!?! 5 Minutes. 1 phone call, meet a friend, done. Total time, 3-5 minutes. Money, only a large amount if you're dumb and get ripped off haha. And NO, that's not an indication of addiction. If someone spends a large amount of money and time to buy the right car, are they addicted? What about on a delicious meal? I want awesome caviar. So I spend money on it and take my time to find the right one. I'm not addicted!!!

"Individuals who abuse steroids can experience withdrawal symptoms when they stop taking steroids, such as mood swings, fatigue, restlessness, loss of appetite, insomnia, reduced sex drive, and steroid cravings"
This is the normalising mentioned earlier. It's where your body goes back to it's pre-steroid levels. The mood swings are the same as when a woman goes onto her period. Some people have minor mood swings, nothing major. Most don't. Dieting for comps is what causes the mood swings.

"If left untreated, some depressive symptoms associated with anabolic steroid withdrawal have been known to persist for a year or more after the abuser stops taking the drugs"
Not that I've come across. This is news to me. Would love to have a reference for evidence of this so I can look into it myself.

"The complications of anabolic steroid abuse are a result of excess testosterone affecting almost all the organ systems in the body. Some of the effects are reversible and decrease when the drug abuse stops while others are permanent and irreversible"
Complications? What complications? Oh, you mean people with a Mesomorph body type that are naturally producing high levels of testosterone. The effect on the other organs....oh wait, they're not able to bind with most types of tissue in the body, so do not effect them. Actually, they do increase the bodies ability to digest food, and provide a positive nitrogen balance, which enhances the body's ability to recover, train harder, and helps the immune system. Some effects are reversible, like balls growing back to normal size, possible water retention. Permanent and irreversible like slight heart enlargement (not dangerous as long as you're healthy and not a lazy slob) and gyno. But Gyno is easily sorted out, and the heart isn't an issue unless you opt for an unhealthy lifestyle.

"In males, the excess steroid suppresses the normal testosterone production in the body and can lead to shrunken testicles and decreased sperm count, baldness, and breast development (gynecomastia)."
Small balls, low sperm are both reversible, as it said above. Baldness only happens if it's already running in the family. If you have no history of baldness, you won't be losing your hair. Gyno, just means you've not been smart with the steds you're taking. Should have added Proviron or Nolvadex. Well done for your ignorance of using the wrong steds.

"Life-threatening side effects include heart attack and stroke, the risk of forming blood clots (deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolus), liver cancer, and liver failure."
All completely unproven. Please cite evidence and studies for this.

"Infections are a common side effect of steroid abuse because of needle sharing and unsanitary techniques used when injecting the drugs into the skin."
WHAT?!?!? Are you serious?!?! I've not met a single person whose shared a needle! You get them for free at the Needle Exchange places!!! Infection from unsanitary techniques is a result of stupidity, which is a characteristic of the person, not the steroid. And SERIOUSLY...COMMON!?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a pile of bollocks that is. Please please please find a reference for this. Here's one for you, check the emergency room stats for people who have gone in as a result of steroid use. Not even the top 100 causes for emergency room visits. It's down in the 150's. So, COMMON? Less than 1% more like 0.06%, and yet 30% of men in the UK has tried 'enhancement' drugs. HAHAHAHA.
On this note, as rare as they are, even as a side effect, they are not caused by steroids but by the people using them. This point is invalid as a steroid's are bad. Just take tablets if you don't know how to inject.

"These are similar risks to IV drug abusers with increase potential to acquire blood-borne infections such as hepatitis and HIV/AIDS."
Mentioning AIDS and HIV is retarded in this situation. Yes they are blood borne infections, but steroids do not cause this. Sharing needles and being an idiot causes this. Once again, it's rare (I've never had a single person admit to sharing a needle. They all say it's stupid). Stupidity is the person's characteristic, not a result of steroids.

"Skin abscesses may occur at injection sites and may spread to other organs of the body. Endocarditis or an infection of the heart valves is not uncommon."
Skin abscesses MAY occur, but are in face EXTREMELY RARE!!! WHAT?!?! They're not caused by steroids but stupid handling of needles?!?! Glad you told me. WHAT?!?! ARE YOU SERIOUS???!?!?!!??! I didn't know you could take tablet steroids and not just injections!!! As for the endocarditis, it's as common in steroid users as it is in non-steroid users. Guess what that means, it means that it is not caused by steroids. If 1 in 50 people experience it, and 1 in 50 bodybuilders experience it, it must mean that bodybuilders are people. Steroids do not come into this equation.

"Psychiatric and psychologic complications include manic behavior and psychosis including hallucinations and delusions. Aggressive behavior is common and is often known as "roid rage"
Aggressive behaviour is not common. Some guys to go the gym to take out natural aggression. It's an outlet. Others go to the gym because they like to fight and want to become stronger....while at the gym they find steroids. Does that mean steroids make them aggressive? I've not met a single case for roid rage!!! 5% of people are naturally very aggressive, and steroids make them more confident. The steroids do not make them aggressive. Either way, if you want to blame steds, it's 5%. Therefor 95% of steroid users are not subject to roid rage. If 95% don't get roid rage, then how is it COMMON? I'm starting to question this guy.

"Because the muscle growth can occur quickly, it can cause stress on the tendons that attach the muscle to bone and anabolic steroid abusers are at risk for tendon rupture."
True. But it's very rare for it to happen. I tore a bicep once, but that was the result of not tapping from an arm bar, not from steroids.

"Anabolic steroids can increase bone production, especially in the skull and face. Teeth can splay apart as the maxilla and mandible grow. There can be overgrowth of the forehead giving an "Incredible Hulk" appearance."
Retarded sentences. Don't confuse steroids with synthetic HGH, they are not the same thing! Everyone knows that. Where did you get your doctorate from? McDonalds?

"If adolescent teenagers abuse steroids before they have finished growing, these drugs can prematurely close bone growth plates, leading to short stature."
Unproven, due to insufficient testing. The theory behind this is because a lot of bodybuilders are short. Don't confuse corrolation with causality. Many short guys get bullied so start bodybuilding to get big and stop being bullied, so they take steroids to enhance their muscle-FACT, this is unquestionable. Correlation says short guys take steroids therefore steroids make you short. Great logic on that one. Although I don't know whether they would stunt growth, I wouldn't recommend anyone take then unless mature enough. Kids are usually not mature enough.



To be even more of a know it all, the whole thing is based on steroid ABUSE and not steroid use. The two are miles apart!!! Drinking a glass of red wine and drinking pints of vodka until you're comatose are equally miles apart.

[BeardyMan]

Yeah, I tend to lean towards the words & work of a doctor. But, as I've said many times. you can find scientific articles for both sides of the argument.

I only read a little bit, but this made me smile:

"Correlation says short guys take steroids therefore steroids make you short."

[Scythe13]

(27 September 2013, 13:09)BeardyMan Wrote: Yeah, I tend to lean towards the words & work of a doctor. But, as I've said many times. you can find scientific articles for both sides of the argument.

I only read a little bit, but this made me smile:

"Correlation says short guys take steroids therefore steroids make you short."

That's the logic so many people use to justify their 'results'.

Yoga makes you live longer. Evidence, people that do yoga have a 5 year life span longer than non-yoga people. Missed bit of information, the people do yoga also eat organic food, run more often than non-yoga's, Don't smoke and don't drink or do any drugs.

Vegetarian's live longer than meat eaters. Evidence people on a veggie diet have a 5 year life span longer than meat eaters. Missed bit of information, meat eaters eat less veg. Is it possible that veg is what makes you live longer? Turns out....YES it is the abundance of veg and not the absence of meat that causes life extension.

See how this works?

Depressed guy takes steds and kills himself. Was it depression that killed him or the steds? Maybe it was depression, considering 30% of men in the UK admit to taking 'enhancers' would result in a massive suicide rate!!!

[bigpaul]

one thing I've noticed, why are all vegetarians so skinny??

[Scythe13]

Here BM, check this.

The stuff on the site is hugely referenced.

http://www.steroid.com/effects_of_steroids.php

Look at some steroid profiles and you'll see the effects of what they do.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZOCdH_Qyzg

Haha, check this beasty out.

[BeardyMan]

(27 September 2013, 13:09)BeardyMan Wrote: as I've said many times. you can find scientific articles for both sides of the argument.

if you can be bothered.

[Scythe13]

(28 September 2013, 08:47)BeardyMan Wrote:

(27 September 2013, 13:09)BeardyMan Wrote: as I've said many times. you can find scientific articles for both sides of the argument.

if you can be bothered.

Fair enough, but I'm looking for studies with proven results. Not just opinions. There are doctors giving opinions, but not scientific data. The two are very different.

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Check out the STUDIES for moderate use of steroids. Those have proven outcomes. Check out anti-aging clinics and their studies too. Check out high testosterone and it's effect on career progression (no joke, this one even shocked me)...if you can be bothered

[Skean Dhude]

We seem to be going off topic here although ironically it does prove a point.

Everything is useful in the right dose.