EDC compass

[Straight Shooter]

I really enjoyed reading that post MB ...i had to read it three times...Brilliant !

[Pete Grey]

Very interesting point of view MB, the thing is we don’t know if when or how a EMP or CME event might occur, so is it better to try and protect equipment or just not bother, we are preppers after all. We must all make up our minds as we assess the risks to our own location, the UK and the US are very different, if nothing else a faraday cage made for example from a metal ammo box will keep things together in one place.

[Straight Shooter]

My Faraday box is a metal dust bin lined with insulation/plastic , CB radio,solar chargers,Geiger counter, kindle,data sticks, petrol generator,volt meter, radio, walkie talkies,
DC golf trolley battery , rechargeable batteries, inverters for solar, cable ,switches , spade fittings,fuses , inline fuses, solar panel (small).... timers,torches, Led strip lights ,amongst other stuff my brain can not recall right now ! .....if this bin does not work (and it does i have tested it)....with a mobile phone at least.......then i will go to plan B and adopt the MB doctrine ......sorted ! all said and done its far better to TRY and fail than fail too try.

[Mortblanc]

(7 December 2017, 01:11)Pete Grey Wrote: Very interesting point of view MB, the thing is we don’t know if when or how a EMP or CME event might occur, so is it better to try and protect equipment or just not bother, we are preppers after all. We must all make up our minds as we assess the risks to our own location, the UK and the US are very different, if nothing else a faraday cage made for example from a metal ammo box will keep things together in one place.

There seems to be a preception that things are much different in the UK and the US and I do not understand this attitude. Physics operates the same world wide and the things we need to survive are basically the same world wide. Only the mental outlook differs and the geography to some degree. What we would do before and during the event would be the same, it is what would happen after the event that differs.

What would cause an "event" in either place is the same.

That is really not a big mystery Pete. EMP is most likely to be the result of a Nuke detonation. CME is most likely to be the result of a CME!

CME would probably affect half the earth surface, depending on which half was exposed to the direct onslaught of solar flare. That can be predicted and you would have some time, at least a day, to prepare.

EMP from Nuke explosions would be slightly different in the UK and US. Here in the states we would have bombardment around major cities and military bases so our EMP blackouts would be a polka-dot pattern with areas unaffected between those spots. In the UK the bombardment would be major cities and a series of bombs along the west coast to dump fallout over the entire island. You would be saturated and the entire island probably blacked out.

The real question is what are the chances of each occurring and what extremes do we go to in protecting from them.

Logically, there is little we can do to protect everything we use from pulses. And there are some things that would be a waste to protect if no one else is protecting on the other end. Ham radios are one example. Put them in a box and seal them up and take up space in the Faraday cage only to find that there is no one else on planet earth that did the same. Sticking cell phones in the box when the towers they depend on are not protected. Those things would be a waste.

I also have a concern with those that recommend placing a torch inside the Faraday cage. WHY? Logic is not being used here. The torch would just take up space if it is empty and one should not store a device with the battery installed. It is a metal tube with a bulb and switch, put it in the kitchen drawer or tool bin. These types of recommendations promote me being suspect of other advice on EMP given by such people. Do they really know what they are talking about?

Saving a laptop w/thumb drives of information, probably not so much a waste. The rotovator/motorbike/chain saws/generators, all of which have chips or programming in their running gear, would be worth the expense of a metal floor and metal storage shed, or even the big size metal dust bin with top.

I can also see having walkie/talkies in there for close comms, or even a CB, as well as a small solar pannel and a lawn tractor/motorcycle battery (I am not taking up space with a big battery) and dc/ac inverter to power chargers. Hopefully the information I have is correct and if these items are not running when the EMP or CME pulse hits they will still operate without special treatment even if they are not in a Faraday cage. Close comms will be appreciated during any emergency event for keeping contact between house and field workers, patrols, lookouts and those guarding livestock, anything we use a cell phone for today close around the house.

Knowing which neighbors have equipment stored in these metal storage building is also good knowledge, and not difficult to obtain when most folks leave the doors of these units open during use. One of my neighbors has a huge steel building filled with farm equipment, another has half dozen ATV 4 wheelers in his. One neighbor has an excavation company and heavy earth moving equipment. I have mentioned that I live in a close rural community before. We know each other and know our skill-sets. We also have a good deal of disaster experience due to the normal extremes in weather we endure.

The other direction from trying to protect everything is trying to think of what would save your life that might fit into a metal ammo box. I really can not see my electronic life fitting into a metal ammo box. I believe I agree with SS and the metal dust bin is about as small as I could go in prepping for EMP/CME.

My first and foremost suggestion for what to put in a metal ammo box is AMMO! Ammo and firearms are not subject to either EMP or CME extremes. I can get about 100/ 12 gauge shells in the average metal ammo can and would really feel much better opening that box to find my ammo than to recover my extra smart phone and find no one on the other end. Dialing 999 is not gong to help you much about then.

[Lightspeed]

(7 December 2017, 01:11)Pete Grey Wrote: Very interesting point of view MB, the thing is we don’t know if when or how a EMP or CME event might occur, so is it better to try and protect equipment or just not bother, we are preppers after all. We must all make up our minds as we assess the risks to our own location, the UK and the US are very different, if nothing else a faraday cage made for example from a metal ammo box will keep things together in one place.

Like SS replied, bulk faraday protection is relatively easy. He and a few others I know of are using metal dustbins with poly bac liners. As long as the lid is electrically bonded to the bin, it'll do a good job of protecting the contents.

I'm Lazier than SS, and have simply repurposed a dead fridge freezer as it has a steel shell and is already lined with insulating plastic. A couple of braided earth straps between the doors and the main body of the unit and the job's done.

For smaller items I also use metal biscuit and sweet tins... always a few more available after Christmas of course.

[Pete Grey]

Hi MB when I said UK and the USA are very different I mean in area and population density, the area I live in has 6500 per sq. mile when the US average is about 90 people per sq. mile , your area being a close rural community would be even lower. As you say a nuclear bombardment on the US would have areas untouched but in the UK we would all be little piles of ash, I do plan my preps for an all out nuclear war. On the other hand a single weapon detonated over Belgium would probably fry the electronics in most of western europe. The information you gave on CME pulses is most helpful if we can reset items by switching off, waiting then switching on again.

The ammo box I use for faraday protection is about 2ft.x1ft.x1ft, at the moment it is big enough, I would love to keep ammunition in it but they took our guns away 20 years ago over here.

SS thank you for your ideas, as you say if the faraday box doesn’t work we’ll wait in silence until the meds run out like MB.

LS thanks for the reminder about earth bonding I was relying on the lid fitting well enough and 3 layers of aluminium foil.

[Pete Grey]

Sorry I do NOT plan my preps for an all out nuclear war.

[Straight Shooter]

To be honest i never gave the chainsaw a second thought till MB flagged it up.....the thing is like most of us here...we tend to lean into (old tried and tested simple things ) like bow saws ,buck saws,axes .......so things are covered in a way, but a lot bloody easier with a petrol chainsaw ....even if the fuel does run out ....in the short term you could get a great deal done in a very short time (probably when you would need to most).

[Mortblanc]

Pete, we have discussed firearms extensively on here and TPTB did not take your guns away 20 years ago. Except for handguns you can have a very useful battery of firearms suited for any occasion. Between your two levels of normal firearms certification you can accomplish a lot.

Our population density variations was also in my mind, and stays in my mind, while discussing things with you folks over there. But you also have wide variation in population density in the smaller overall land area. Your nation simply presents a smaller over all target for any destructive device.

While I am in a rural area, and the general density where I sit is lower here than in GB, remember that the majority of the population over here is in the same situation as you are in urban GB.

50%+ of our population lives in urban centers that are located within 50 miles of a coast line. Most of our east coast has a population density of more then 1000 psm. We have a single unbroken urban area of more than 1,000 psm that stretches from Boston in the north to North Carolina in the south, a distance of more than 1500 linear coast miles and reaching back 50 miles inland.

Our major cities will be much more dense than that. On 911 the World Trade Center contained a population of more than 40,000 people in the two buildings that were destroyed. Those urban centers pack them vertically, not horizontally.

1/4 of the U.S. population resides in California within 50 miles of the coast and the inclusive west coast contains 1/3 of the U.S. population and produces 1/3 of our GNP.

That leaves a huge mass of the interior core of our land area that is not worth bombing since it has less than 100 psm and almost 50% of the land west of the Mississippi has much less than that. Our state of Idaho, at my last check, had 5 psm over an area the size of Scotland. There are a half dozen states, an area larger than all of Europe, that are empty desert with small towns only along the national motorways and at desert oasis, like Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Phoenix and Santa Fe.

Our west is a vast empty zone due to lack of water. Nothing past the 100th meridian gets more than 25cm of rain a year. That is the reason for those vast wildfires you hear about over here. People have tried to turn the desert bushland into suburbs by piping water for hundreds of miles and it just does not work.

No need to crave the vast empty spaces of the American West, no one can live there. They tried, it did not work!

And keep in mind that most of our population is no more prepper oriented than your is. It is just that the small percentage we have forms a larger number than you have and the fact that due to our varied and dangerous weather patterns more people keep preps on hand even if they would not call themselves preppers.

[Pete Grey]

Hi MB
Yes it was hand guns that TPTB took off us, we can still own shotguns but they have made ownership more difficult with licensing and storage regulations, firearms do need a separate license, 22 riffles are reasonable easy to get, I believe fullbore riffles are difficult due to the need to justify their use, especially in urban areas, there is no wild game here except deer stalking in Scotland.

Thank you for the population information on the US, this is a real eye opener, we here have very little real knowledge of your country, we know of the big cities and the prairies the deep south and the national parks, but not the real context of your country.

We do not have have the severe weather patterns ( thank goodness ) that you do, however some of us remember our parents, after going through WW2, always keeping a well stocked larder, so that must be where the need to prep comes from. The “prepped gene”.

Take care.