The problem of refugees

[Tibbs735]

As an overpopulated island, we are very dependent on foreign imports of oil, food, consumer goods etc, as I'm sure you all know. So if for whatever reason there is some kind of profound societal collapse or change in a bad way, we can expect to take some massive steps backwards.

What we would most likely end up with is a mix of sustenance farming with some modern techniques thrown in; growing food to stay alive in the long run, but with some access to tractors, diminishing supplies of fertilizers.

The population would shrink until it could support itself, a die-off of millions of people. They will not simply lay down and die. The suburbanites, the Vicky Pollards, the welfare nation, most city dwellers, would rapidly become refugees because there is no niche they can fill, or help scheme for them to occupy.

So, this is the scenario.
You are all bugged out, squared away etc. Most likely a rural setup, with a few acres of garden, all your preps and skills. Most likely a few other people too, like family and like minded individuals ready to have a stab a surviving the harsh Darwinism we as a society have been shielded from for so long.

One afternoon, the dog starts barking. Down the road, still about a mile away, there is a large, sad looking group of above mentioned individuals. They have children, shopping carts of meager belongings and desperation. They have not noticed you yet.

What do you do?
Do you attempt to drive them away, but risk them returning at night? Do nothing, but watch as they strip you garden and break down your door? Do you open fire?

Britain is very densely populated, so wherever you are, you are likely to face this situation at some point or another.

[bigpaul]

watch them, see where they go, if they start coming this way fire a warning shot over their heads, if they keep coming shoot to kill.

[Tibbs735]

But when they supposedly retreat after the warning shot, I doubt they will forget you exist. You will be on the map forever as someone who has something worth protecting.

[mikebratcher69]

One thing I'll say is look at this, I've posted similar before.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
Number 22 on the list..U.K. 62,300,000 July 1, 2010.
More than likely 63 million and more by now with the influx of rapists and child trafficers, sorry I mean foreign workers.
10 million people in the UK are over 65 years old so Minus a threat of 10 million people equals 52,300,000.
Under 16's 11.9 million, say 13 million now as these figures are out of date so thats 39,300,000.
Fancy discounting most women (30.2 million) round up to 32 million, as a threat?? that equals 7,300,000.
7,300,000. males of fighting age.
IF you discounted a big die off, and for luck took off a few million, say 5 million that'd still leave over 2 million plus people ( starving) roaming about looking for food for themselves and their families.
Yes lots would die through starvation and disease.
Yes lots would be killed by other people in the fights for supplies, rape, murder etc...
BUT some people would have you discount the ammount of people still alive looking activly for food and supplies.
Look at reports of europe after world war 2 for example, there were vigilante gangs roaming, rape gangs roaming, etc...
A war as big as world war 2 didnt kill off that many, they simply hid till it was all over.
Yes people arent as clever now a days, their quite thick in fact BUT they will still be looking for food and anything they can get because come shtf, they will think the worlds going back to normal, so they'll nick your gear and store it to sell at cash generator when the world gets back to normal. Regimented rows of crops andfarm animals of any sort will attract instant attention as a source of food.
There are people shall we say who think we'll go back to the good old days and we'll get left alone to farm and raise whatever crops we want.
Well you may if you have a brutal army at your disposal or at least a person capable of disposing of "problems"
The word post shtf will undoubtitly be very harse, violent and short for some.
I dont intend to be one of them, I prepare for extreme circumstances and defense of my family, if that means of disposing of thousands of "confrontations in a terminal manner then so be it. There will be no place in the new world for second thoughts or even caring emotion for others outside your group unless by prior arangement.

[bigpaul]

(5 April 2012, 11:07)Tibbs735 Wrote: But when they supposedly retreat after the warning shot, I doubt they will forget you exist. You will be on the map forever as someone who has something worth protecting.

no, they will go somewhere else that isnt defended and is easier,safer to rob!

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(5 April 2012, 11:11)mikebratcher69 Wrote: One thing I'll say is look at this, I've posted similar before.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
Number 22 on the list..U.K. 62,300,000 July 1, 2010.
More than likely 63 million and more by now with the influx of rapists and child trafficers, sorry I mean foreign workers.
10 million people in the UK are over 65 years old so Minus a threat of 10 million people equals 52,300,000.
Under 16's 11.9 million, say 13 million now as these figures are out of date so thats 39,300,000.
Fancy discounting most women (30.2 million) round up to 32 million, as a threat?? that equals 7,300,000.
7,300,000. males of fighting age.
IF you discounted a big die off, and for luck took off a few million, say 5 million that'd still leave over 2 million plus people ( starving) roaming about looking for food for themselves and their families.
Yes lots would die through starvation and disease.
Yes lots would be killed by other people in the fights for supplies, rape, murder etc...
BUT some people would have you discount the ammount of people still alive looking activly for food and supplies.
Look at reports of europe after world war 2 for example, there were vigilante gangs roaming, rape gangs roaming, etc...
A war as big as world war 2 didnt kill off that many, they simply hid till it was all over.
Yes people arent as clever now a days, their quite thick in fact BUT they will still be looking for food and anything they can get because come shtf, they will think the worlds going back to normal, so they'll nick your gear and store it to sell at cash generator when the world gets back to normal. Regimented rows of crops andfarm animals of any sort will attract instant attention as a source of food.
There are people shall we say who think we'll go back to the good old days and we'll get left alone to farm and raise whatever crops we want.
Well you may if you have a brutal army at your disposal or at least a person capable of disposing of "problems"
The word post shtf will undoubtitly be very harse, violent and short for some.
I dont intend to be one of them, I prepare for extreme circumstances and defense of my family, if that means of disposing of thousands of "confrontations in a terminal manner then so be it. There will be no place in the new world for second thoughts or even caring emotion for others outside your group unless by prior arangement.

quite right Mike, i think the saying is something along the lines of:"defend with extreme provocation" or something like.

[Tibbs735]

I think that kids will still be a threat. In countries hit by famine, often children are left orphaned as their parents starve, because what parent could eat whilst their children were hungry? The children are left to fend for themselves, becoming ruthless with absolutely no moral qualms about killing and/or eating you. But I agree on the mathematics of the population that will be left,

[00111001]

ATTACK.

Kill the adults, keep the kids as slaves to work the farm.

[Scythe13]

This is an interesting scenario, especially because of where I live.

Personally, I'd grab my BOB and GHB, set up on the roof, and watch the front door. If they came and started in on it, I'd have no choice but to stay up on the roof. If they came up there, I've got LOADS of ways off, so that would be okay.

Then it's a quick jump into the car and out of the area.

If things did start getting bad, I think we would lock both doors to the flat, and then remove a load of the bottom stairs. That would at least buy us time to up and off.

[mikebratcher69]

(5 April 2012, 12:07)Scythe13 Wrote: This is an interesting scenario, especially because of where I live.

Personally, I'd grab my BOB and GHB, set up on the roof, and watch the front door. If they came and started in on it, I'd have no choice but to stay up on the roof. If they came up there, I've got LOADS of ways off, so that would be okay.

Then it's a quick jump into the car and out of the area.

If things did start getting bad, I think we would lock both doors to the flat, and then remove a load of the bottom stairs. That would at least buy us time to up and off.

Make sure your cars protected someway, if its attacked whilst your on the roof can you protect it, remember chavs like to go crash and smash....

[Reality Jones]

(5 April 2012, 11:11)mikebratcher69 Wrote: More than likely 63 million and more by now with the influx of rapists and child trafficers, sorry I mean foreign workers.

This has got to be the worst comment /opinion I've ever seen posted on a prepper forum.
In fact I find it insulting, I happen to be one of those foreign workers Mike
I get up at 5.30 am six days a week and don't return home until after 6pm every evening,. I work f#cking hard and I pay my taxes so that people born in this country can continue to leech off the state and sit around complaining about how little they get and what they deserve.
I am self employed, I claim no holiday pay or sick pay, I work in all weathers to pay the mortgage on the house that I live in with my family.
I struggle on a daily basis to provide my family with a roof over its head and food in its stomach.
I originate from a country torn apart by war and disease.
Does this make a RAPIST?? Or does this make me a CHILD TRAFFICKER Mike??
Please let me know where I'm going wrong because as far as I was concerned I was a hard working human being trying to carve out a better life for himself and his family.
That is why I prep Mike, because I know first hand what it is really like to suffer in a society with no law or order while people starve around me.

If I wanted to read such bullsh#t statements as yours I'd have joined a far right forum not a preppers forum.
You should be ashamed .