how much stuff!!!!!

[Barneyboy]

Just done a check list on all my stuff that i would need to take if i bugged with my family and to carry it all i would need two cars and two trailers which is not very stealth like so my question is what do you think would be best for yourselves bug in or bug out? The problem that i've got is if the SHTF and i have to get out quick i'm think what emergency and quick rations i would need, for to adults and 3 small kids and 3 dogs any ideas guys?

[NorthernRaider]

Below is why I ended up with a Transit van BOV and the wife has a tiny 4x4 for EDC use than can become a recce vehicle after TSHTF

extract from my prepping guide

A FAMILY BUGGING OUT BY ROAD VEHICLE.

OK Let’s say you are a prepper or at least someone taking disaster prep seriously, there's you and your partner, couple of preteen kids and perhaps say grandma or a similar permutation of relatives.

Your prime choice of bugging out is by road (as it is for the majority of us)

So what criteria do you use when choosing what sort of vehicle to use and what to put inside it?

What I want people to try and realise that for many families or even couples that bugging out from City or Rural location is simply not rushing out and buying a big bloody 4x4 jeep with loads of gadgets fitted.

Things people need to consider are (but often ignored because a jeep looks cool and macho on the drive)

Belted Seats for everyone (it’s no use piling the kids on top of the guns and fishing kit as you try and drive down a gravel slope)

Internal sleeping space (Camping out In the real world the chances are it will probably be hot/ cold/ windy/ wet/ snowy/ dusty or susceptible to being eaten live by anything from soldier ants, fleas, chiggers, ticks etc all the way up to grizzly bears and humans. You really need to be able to accommodate your peoples sleeping needs inside your BOV.)

Catering, Washing and Toilet access (face it if you have to survive for any length of time you don’t want to be washing and crapping in a stream in midwinter, and that is providing grandma or the kids can get down the slope to the stream, nor do you want to be eating or feeding your kids MRE's Jerky or snickers bars every day possibly for weeks on end. You need a cooker, fuel, internal water supply, camping toilet, and waste water tank)

Equipment storage It’s simple your group kit needs to be carried INSIDE the vehicle on two counts, (1) SECURITY: IE to stop people stealing your kit, or advertising yourselves as fully equipped with valuable kit.
(2) CONCEALMENT, there’s nothing more likely to attract the attention of undesirables or even other survivalists than a vehicle liberally draped in winches, jacks, jerry cans, ropes, food lockers etc)
Stay sensible before you spout off about being armed, there is a damn good chance that anyone stumbling into you is better armed, better trained, more numerous and more desperate to resupply. (It’s better to still be armed for defence but to have no one even notice you.)

Range (During Hurricane Katrina and in New York State on 911 two things occurred you need consider.
(1) Down New Orleans way even some survivalist families that were fully prepared got caught out. Because of the mass evacuation order so many vehicles were on the road at one time, all heading away from the area, many drivers found themselves crawling along at 5 mph for up to 12 hours in first gear. This caused them to run out of fuel long before they reached safety even when they had a couple of Jerry cans of fuel extra on board as full tanks.

(2) In New York as soon as news broke about 911 many gas stations closed, some chose to close, other were told to close by cops who feared war had broken out. But the effect was the same, people ran out of fuel trying to flee the area. Other gas stations were simply sucked dry in hours by the surge in demand. You need to store enough fuel to travel from your home to your place of safety by the longest route possible, and having to do it in low gear.
A rough example is if your retreat is 150 miles away you really need enough fuel aboard to do 450 miles).

Fuel Safety and Availability (This bit many people hate thinking about or choose to ignore). If you need to carry lots of fuel to get to your retreat and possibly back as well it means you are carrying a lot of volatile material. The fact is that it’s simply safer and fuel efficient to drive a diesel powered vehicle.
Yes your V 8 small block hemi engine is sexy, but it’s also a liability in the fire and fuel availability stakes. Gasoline is simply dangerous to handle, it does not like being stored without being treated, it explodes far too easy, and after TSHTF it’s much harder to get than diesel, even in the US. Currently if you wanted to get some extra gasoline you can go to the gas station along with all the panic stricken Joe Publics and that’s about it.

BUT with diesel you can try gas stations, truck stops, trucks themselves, freight depots, freight yards, locomotive stables, railroad sidings, military depots, boat yards, airports, farms, farm suppliers and other agricultural sources. Even in the US there is billions of gallons more long life diesel available than gasoline).

Flexibility ( There is simply no reason why your BOV cannot be used as your everyday drive to work vehicle, millions of people drive, panel vans, camper vans, SUVs, and Day vans as their normal means of transport. You can even use it to go on camping vacations with.)


SELECTING A BUG OUT VEHICLE

The Chances are if you are a fit single young man you will get by with a good SUV 4x4 type vehicles with camping equipment fitted wherever you can, But if you are a family man or not in the first flourish of youth you are going to need something more spacious like a Van or Overlander RV
(Overlanders are basically heavy duty expedition vehicles)

I think very few people will need a huge coach built camper conversion like a Winnebago, the upper limit is likely to be the very rugged ex school bus in the US and the ex-army bus in the UK. But generally the trend does appear to be for a self-contained BOV usually a van conversion, rather than an upgraded SUV with external camping equipment. But not entirely, there are still many survivalists who are more than happy with their Land Rovers and Jeeps and there are people who are more than satisfied with their upgraded family cars as well.

FITTING OUT YOUR B.O.V

There are some very important things to consider when designing, fitting out and loading your Bug out Vehicle, they range from
1. Selecting the best vehicle you can afford to buy and run.
2. Fitting it out as best as possible.
3. Distributing the load evenly between the axles.
4. Keeping heavy items stored as low down as possible.
5. Balancing the weight evenly along both sides of the vehicle.
6. Keeping often needed and important equipment readily to hand.
7. Ensuring you don’t have to offload kit to get to the bed, toilet or kitchen.
8. Not overloading your vehicle so as to affecting handling or ground clearance.
9. Ensuring the vehicle is made as BOV suitable as possible (IE Rugged).
10. Remembering to redistribute weight in the vehicle as fuel, food and water are consumed.
11. Incorporating as many useful features as possible / affordable.
12. Making it easily repairable as possible


Ideally if you want a BOV with internal sleeping accommodation a 4x4 panel van conversion will meet your needs the closest, followed by a 4x2 panel van, the other common option of course is the 4x4 SUV or utility truck with a roof mounted tent or towed trailer containing some sort of opening or demountable sleeping arrangement.


Many survivalists choose the Off Road vehicle option as it suits their needs best, but I feel that many survivalists with family members both young and old will be better suited to sleeping inside a BOV rather than in a tent or trailer tent.


Your BOV should have the capacity to carry extra fuel, extra food, extra water, extra clothing, extra equipment and logistics to make the bugging out event as least traumatic as possible, it has been debated to great length over the years but a commonly held belief is that your vehicle should carry enough fuel to cover a distance four times of that equaling the most direct route to your final destination, IE if its 150 miles to your retreat you should carry fuel enough to go 600 miles. This allows for road blocks, diversions, natural and manmade hazards and pure bad luck. You can supplement and extend your range by caching fuel along the most likely routes you will follow to get to your retreat, but what you must NEVER do is plan on using gas stations to obtain extra fuel in an emergency, not only could they be closed, empty or looted but you can guarantee trouble makers will be loitering around them waiting for people just like you to pull in.

I believe that the case has been made firmly in favour of diesel powered vehicles ahead of gasoline powered vehicles, though I do respect other people’s choices, reasons and desires in selecting gasoline power. But for economy, reliability, accessibility, storage and safe handling, efficiency and availability Diesel is in my honest opinion the best choice for survivalists.

Your BOV will ideally be able to provide enough sleeping space for all of your group/ family MINUS ONE, because at all times someone should be outside keeping watch. You do not want to have to unload equipment or supplies in order to make up a berth because if you are forced to suddenly flee for your lives then you will probably have to abandon the stuff you offloaded.

Use your head when designing and loading your vehicle, if for example your fuel tank is on the right hand side of the vehicle then position the extra fuel tank on the left to balance the weight. As you use up your supplies do remember to rebalance the vehicles load to compensate.

As well as balancing the vehicle keep the centre of gravity as low as possible, keep all the heaviest stuff as low down as possible, fuel , bottled gas, water etc on or under the vehicle floor, followed by food and tools, with lightweight stuff like clothing and bedding stored in the highest spots. Make sure you have adequate ventilation in your vehicle when burning gas for cooking or heating.



What should your vehicle have in an ideal world? (Only my opinion)

Good ground clearance (better off road capability).
All wheel drive (Selectable 4wd preferred to save fuel)
16 inch steel wheels & light truck re-enforced tyres
Diesel engine, none turbo preferred for reliability
Manual Transmission (Automatics waste far too much energy from an engine)
Long range fuel tanks (Greater independence and security in avoiding gas stations)
Twin Batteries (charged from Engine and Solar Panel when stationary)
Auxiliary power supplies (PV Cell, Micro turbine, Bottle gas powered generator)
Upgraded Lighting (with auxiliary driving lights on separate circuit to main lights)
Belted Seating for everyone.
Domestically manufactured (for spares accessibility)
Internal insulated water tanks (Drinking/ washing)
Dirty water tanks (leave no trace of rest stop)
Toilet (with sealed easy clean tanks)
Shower (an external spigot will do)
Strongly build cabinet fittings
Kitchen Unit (sink, cooker, grill, fridge)
Dirty / Wet Locker (keeping wet and dirty clothing separate)
Vented Bottled gas locker (Min two 7.5 kg bottles)
Satnav / map locker
Good quality AM FM DIGITAL radio in cab and saloon
Power / light fused distribution board
External hookup for 120/220v
A ceramic or Reverse Osmosis water filter (if you fill up at possibly impure water sources).
A mobile phone charger.
External storage racks for stuff like Jerry cans, Bicycles, Spare wheel carriers etc.
Winch and bull bars & swivel spotlights (protection and self-extraction and lighting)
Tool & spares locker (vehicles tools and common spares).

Please do remember that for the average modern western family all of the above can be accommodated into a long wheel base panel van like a Ford Transit or Econoline, and accordingly can be used as everyday transport for one of the family, the vehicle can most certainly be used for leisure purposes as well as survivalism.


Vehicle Jacks, Spare Wheels & Wheel Braces

Have you noticed just how badly located many spare wheels are located on our vehicles and also how utterly useless the standard vehicle jack is, very often the OE jack can only be used on one specific spot on each corner of the vehicle, that’s no good if that spot is sited over a rock or soft ground when you get a puncture.
One thing I always try to do to my vehicles is to relocate the spare wheel if it’s stored UNDER the vehicle, I either bonnet, roof or tailgate mount it, or even leave it inside the vehicle. I'm sick of having to crawl under the vehicle to unwind the securing bolt in the pouring rain, then trying to drag the blasted thing out from underneath the vehicle.

I also very often scrap the OE Jack and replace it with one with a wider base so it works on soft ground (stops the jack sinking in) and one that will go under the vehicle easily and lift in multiple locations on the body or suspension, rather than many OE jacks that can only lift in specific locations on the vehicle body. You can compromise by welding a bigger steel footplate to the bottom of your OE jack.
At the very least you need an extra foot plate made from steel or thick timber to be kept with your jack, 12x12 or 18 x 18 inches.

Some folks now use AIR jacks which are basically a re-enforced neoprene bag you push under the car and inflated it via a compressor ran from the cigar lighter socket, or from a 3 litre diver’s bottle.
I have also noticed in their mad dash to make vehicles as light as possible that the manufacturers are now making the wheel brace for undoing the wheel nuts very short indeed, often requiring someone with super human strength or a piece of scaffolding pipe to free off tight wheel nuts. I strongly recommend you get hold of a chrome steel extending wheel brace, they are only about £15 and also double up nicely as a defensive weapon.
Don’t forget in a real Bug Out situation the spare wheel, jack and brace need to be very easily accessible so you can change a wheel quickly and get going again ASAP, Having to unload the BOV to get at the spare is definitely bad practise to be avoided at all costs.
Also if you are likely to be sleeping overnight in the vehicle in a BO situation and end up parking off the highway it is well worth keeping four pieces of 13 or 19 mm plywood at least 18 inches x 12 inches to park the vehicle on during the stopover, this will help prevent your vehicle sinking into soft ground overnight and getting stuck. The bigger the vehicle and heavier the load the bigger the boards need to be.

[Paul]

Crikey NR.
So much gear, so little space.
I struggle to get two bob's, wife, and dog, into my rust bucket.
Good thoughts on jacks.
I carry a farm jack.
It has "other uses" besides jacking the car like lifting locked gates off their hinges and splitting wheel clamps!

[NorthernRaider]

(9 July 2012, 22:24)Paul Wrote: Crikey NR.
So much gear, so little space.
I struggle to get two bob's, wife, and dog, into my rust bucket.
Good thoughts on jacks.
I carry a farm jack.
It has "other uses" besides jacking the car like lifting locked gates off their hinges and splitting wheel clamps!

Roof tents are your friend, as are extended bumpers front and rear carrying boxes of extra kit.

[Barneyboy]

bloody hell that alot so only chose is to bug in do need to rethink this thanks for that NR

[NorthernRaider]

(10 July 2012, 08:54)Barneyboy Wrote: bloody hell that alot so only chose is to bug in do need to rethink this thanks for that NR

I think most adult Brit preppers with partners, ankle biters and rugrats are now going with the Bug In option, only having small BOBS for 72 hours escape plans and relying on a couple of caches hidden around the area to draw supplies from.

This is why I campaign for families who have no other real sensible option but to stay in place to at least get away from the big cities and towns and get as self reliant as possible.

A fit single young man with good skills and a predatory nature MAY be able to survive in a city long term after TSHTF, but I 100% believe a family can not.

---

That vehicle spec BTW was a totally comprehensive all singing all dancing specification, most people get by with much less. However just look at the rain we have had for months now, look at the winter the year before last where the ice was on the ground for months, C,mon FFS are any of you honestly going to try and tell me a family with perhaps kids and grand parents can rough it from a vehicle living at night in a tent if they are very lucky in that sort of shit for months??? I think not.

This is the UK and our climate is a mixture of wet, windy, cold, freezing cold and not so cold, or a mix of all. To bug out after a major event for most people requires that ALL the family members cept the poor sod on guard duty need to sleep WITHIN the shelter of a vehicle body be it a van, caravan or pop up. And if you are bugging out cos of civil unrest, riots, looting etc you cannot afford to have to offload your vehicle before you can strtetch out to sleep, you really need to be totally self contained for safety and comfort and health reasons. Leave the rock cllimbing 4x4 monster trucks with 36 inches of ground clearance but no place to crap, wash or cook to the young single warrior wannabes.

[bigpaul]

i think most preppers realise that option 1 is going to be bugging in, thats where we are most comfortable and where most if not all our supplies and stocks are, i for one cannot bug out with everything i have stocked, some things will have to be left behind-there just isnt enough room in the vehicle for everything. bugging out is only an option when things have gone completely pear shaped and you have to get out fast.

[Barneyboy]

thanks guys bugging in was and is the best for me and mine may have to think about caches this does need some thinking about im lucky where i live norfolk alot of farm land not alot of people

[Paul]

(10 July 2012, 17:49)Barneyboy Wrote: thanks guys bugging in was and is the best for me and mine may have to think about caches this does need some thinking about im lucky where i live norfolk alot of farm land not alot of people

The one thing I've learnt is farmers are an observant bunch.
VERY OBSERVANT!
You want to cache?
Choose Forestry Commission land.

---

(10 July 2012, 09:33)NorthernRaider Wrote: A fit single young man with good skills and a predatory nature MAY be able to survive in a city long term after TSHTF.

Yep, provided he can find a firearm or three.

[Barneyboy]

im friends with some farmers my friend