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Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
14 August 2012, 22:17,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
No problem about your thinking from me Ned.
There isn't the need for HF repeaters because primarily there aren't the numbers to warrant it and it's too flipping technical to set up cheaply.

I've little time for some of the radio amateur brigade though.
The DX group I belong to has been recently "baconed" and a little VHF-Low repeater smashed.
Oh they've got skills OK but to use them to find and destroy a tiny solar powered 5 watt home brew repeater no where near their VHF bands takes the biscuit!
It's a big spectrum out there, there's room for everyone.
We don't drift onto ham frequencies so why the hell they come looking for us escapes me.

Historically Cb'ers always helped folk in a crisis yet "the bacon" never made a appearance once even though I've known CB'ers (me being one of them) do meal runs for pensioners when snow stopped play for even the emergency services.
CB Nets worked in the 70-80's with no problem and no fancy electronics. Just good operators.
They still operate on the fringes of CB and Freebander frequencies both of which I can't discuss as it's naughty.

Besides, I don't understand the need for distance comms and I still believe in my 10 mile radius limit in a survival situation. That's about the limit I could comfortably get to and back from in one day.
Contacting someone 100 miles away to source a can of beans is a little extreme to me.
14 August 2012, 23:10,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps

I agree with the range bit but the long range is to keep in touch with people and gather intelligence. Not to arrange shopping trips. Local comms will always be your primary comms.
Skean Dhude
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
15 August 2012, 00:09,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Problem is the long distances though SD. Long distance radio comms is unreliable.
A lot of folk express unreasonable expectations in maintaining good distant comms 24/7.
It just don't happen.

There is however a little group of 8 other CBer's within 5 miles radius of me. That's potentially 8 couples who I can contact, help, and get help from.
Local problems are what worries me especially if local government and utilities are no more.
If London is burning down, Do I care????

Yes my view is "very limited" about receiving intelligence from afar yet all I need to know is what's coming my way and that's going to be via broadcast receivers or via CB relay net calls.

15 August 2012, 07:03,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
TLN, Paul, SD

Setting up a CB repeater for our own exclusive use is relatively easy.

One of these devices hooked up to a CB radio will do the job. Yes, it will allow any other person with a CB radio withthe same channel alignment to use it as well, but the really neat thing is taht it can be turned on and off remotely using a secret user set DTMF code sequence. This means taht we can set it up, test it and then turn it off remotely. Cost of each repeater like this would be around £200

So yes technology has now provided a simple solution to us. The questions are

1. is it legal to set up such a device at this time?
2. Who's going to fund it?
3. Is there a real need for it?

72 de



STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
15 August 2012, 08:44,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
1. is it legal to set up such a device at this time?

Illegal I'm afraid.

2. Who's going to fund it?

IMO No one in their right mind.
Loss of gear is one thing, a criminal record and / or a fine plus loss of gear and a premises search is enough to discourage me.

3. Is there a real need for it?

IMO No, numbers aren't out there and those that are aren't organized enough to reap any form of benefit.

DTMF access? Sure simple to setup.
We tell some the access code.
That will leak faster than Wikileaks!
Problem is the DTMF code turns the transmitter on and you can't hide that sort of thing. It then becomes child's play to direction find by TPTB or the more horrible bacon membership who would love to "tell tales" about the lesser mortals of life.

15 August 2012, 11:11,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps

Thanks for the response.

The booster regs relate to mobile phones I think.

This whole repeater thing has got me intrigued. I looked atthe UK interface requirement for CB and cannot see that a retransmitted message on the same channel / frequency as it was received is in breach of conditions.

I wrote to Ofcom a short while ago to get their advice...... lets see what comes back :-)

72 de



STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
15 August 2012, 12:06,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Quoted from ofcom:-
Installation or use of repeater devices (as with any radio equipment) is a criminal offence unless two conditions are satisfied:

That the equipment is CE marked, indicating that the manufacturer has declared it complies with all relevant EU regulatory requirements, including the Radio equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment (R&TTE) Directive;
That the use of the equipment is specifically authorised in the UK, either via a licence or by regulations made by Ofcom to exempt the use from licensing.

After a good search of the ofcom site, I couldn't find any authorization for CB repeaters. Licensed ham repeaters yes.

In the absence of authorization, I choose caution. It's too easy for them to say "we didn't authorize this" and act accordingly.
15 August 2012, 16:22,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Paul you know I'm no expert on this stuff but is there any likelyhood on those new EU CB radio rules about harmonisation that may allow repeaters?, I would think that if another EU state has them they wont want to give em up.

15 August 2012, 17:28,
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
I'm never sure what is happening regarding the harmonization.
According to the EU, they can use gear here, we're welcome to use our gear there, BUT OFCOM states:-

The use of either Frequency Modulation (FM) or Phase Modulation (PM) is permitted, but the use of Amplitude Modulation (AM) or Single Side-Band modulation (SSB) is not permitted because the use of these modulation schemes greatly increases the probability of causing interference to other radio users, to TV reception and can also result in “breakthrough” on Hi-Fi equipment."

That sort of rules out SSB gear from abroad.

It's bullsh** of course, hams use SSB round those frequencies BUT as the OFCOM committees are made up with radio amateur members, it don't look like it's going to happen.

It could lead to a test case in the European court (if you've got a few 100,000's to spare) but short of some European Trucker being taken to court and fighting for his rights, we've been baconed. (and some people wonder why I'm anti ham)

15 August 2012, 19:20, (This post was last modified: 15 August 2012, 19:41 by The Local Ned.)
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
As regerds my devils advocate posting again - I wasn't aware of the fact that HAMS regularly trashed others equipment - I knew about the foxhunting side of things ( like hide and seek using radio broadcasts ) , but it gives them no rights to trash others equipment.

If it happened up here there would be a few HAM operators with broken fingers in a very short period of time - as well as a mysterious outbreak of HAM antennas being pulled down , cables cut and other slightly more shady happenings.

I must admit though - I've done it myself in the CB'ing days , users that would not move channel and were bleeding through , some who thought they were John Peel playing music...all of their cables received attention , and some of their antennas too....but these were anti-social a$$holes , not other users who weren't upsetting anyone or preventing others from using their radios.

Anyone setting up these repeaters will be liable for HAMS shopping them to Plod and Ofcom make no mistake , and secret codes - especially dtmf wont stay secret long I think too LS.

One thing we've all seemingly shunted aside - if most of our comms are with CB , PMR - why not just adopt whatever standard you will use - either/or , and use a WIDEBAND SCANNER for the rest ? some of the modern scanners have huge range of bands and freqs to scan...for example - A BOL has a local personal comms system of 4W powered PMRs , with a homebase PMR external antenna , adequate for their 5 to 10 mile needs ? They have a wideband ALINCO scanner that can scan CB, HAM , PMR , MARINE , AIR and other freqs , as well as commercial radio broadcasts too. Anyone talking about anything near or far might be intercepted by a scanner such as this - it negates the need for 2 comms systems entirely , only those with a need to contact further afield would require something else.

Discuss please - maybe LS or Paul have knowledge of these ALINCO scanners - everything I've read about them is positive.
Alinco Scanner
Trying very hard not to be paranoid.....and it aint getting easier.

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