Israel loses the moral highground

[Skean Dhude]

I'm surprised that Israel has not gone ballistic before now. These journalists are really working for Hamas anyway. Read the news, no reports of missiles despite them being fired for days into Israel and an Israeli farts and the news is full of poison gas attack.

Palastine has much better PR but it won't benefit them. Things are coming to a head and it isn't going to end well.

[Wildman]

(19 November 2012, 09:56)Scythe13 Wrote: The oddest thing, for me, is that Hamas hide their launch sites in schools, hospitals, and places like that. Places of high civilian population!

Let's pretend there was a place firing rockets at your people/family/countrymen/fellow soldiers. Would you say "Damn, we can't shoot back incase we hit a civilian?" Would you even know that the shot was coming from a school/nursery/hospital? I very much doubt you would know the layout of the enemy city (why would you? They'd execute you for stepping foot there!) Or, would you think "F**K a missile, quick, fire back at where it came from!!!" BOOM!!! You've just blown up a school.....you bastard....or patriot.....or hero! Their next missile could have been aiming at the school that had your children in. You've just taken out a missile launch area, but you've also just killed 3 female teachers and 15 children! Yes you'll feel bad. However, you've also just saved the lives of 1000's of others! So well done you.

I hate the whole 'Moral Retaliation' principle, and this is from someone that prides themselves with good morals.

Who is sickest, the people who fire on a missile platform based in a school? Or the people that placed the platform in the school in the first place? One action made civilian casualties. The other forced them to happen.

Also, the idea of killing women and children. What's the crack with that? I'm not saying it's right, but when women and children are throwing bricks at you (and bricks can easily kill) you should not fire back? Women in Palestine will pick up a gun and fire it at you. Just as a child will pick up a gun and fire at you. Are you saying you would not want to pull the trigger on them first? To be fair, I would. BANG!!! Little Junior just got smoked. Why? Because it was either him or me? NO! Because if he had gone through me, he would have had my family/friend/co-workers/fellow-soldiers/countrymen/etc.

I'm not saying Israel are right or wrong in their actions. But, what I am saying, is that their actions are understandable. Any rational person that can empathise and place themselves in someone else's position (palestine or Israel) can understand their actions (except for placing weapons platforms in positions that would lead to the execution-by-retaliation positions designed to have the focus on women and children).

I just find it odd that we can see anyone as having a higher or lower moral position. It's war.
During the crusades, pure brutality was a daily thing! This is just a similar situation, without the up close and personal experience of using a sword.


In war, there is no moral ground. There is only win or lose. If you win, you should take a moral stance and be able to justify your actions. "We bombed the mosque, because that is where we were being bombed from. We killed 10 terrorists and 100 civilians. But that site killed nearly 500 of our citizens. If we hadn't clusterbombed the area, it could have taken out another 500+ people."

As for kids picking up the unexploded cluster bombs.......what the f**k are the children doing playing with explosives? That's some good parenting if you ask me! "He kids, this area was bombed recently. Let's go play in it!!!" That's some bad parenting. If somewhere was a known mine field, would you let your kids play there? That's basically what the parents are doing. If their parents are dead, then the sense of community that will be keeping those kids away from that area, is pretty weak!!! Oh, and the authorities and clean up crews that go to sort out the site must also be pretty poor at what they do! "Hey kid, I'll give you 10 shekels for each silver tennis ball you pick up....haha, when he finds one, I'll never have to pay him."

There is no right or wrong. But some people are pretty screwed up letting kids play in bomb sites, and placing weapon centres in shopping centres! Really uncool, if you ask me.

---

Sorry, I just kind of went off on one there.

The sickest nation is the nation who have had every opertunity to live a peaceful life yet war munger with no justification as in to why. I've never heard of any Palestinian doings that weren't out of retaliation. If the whole world dose nothing then I see no reason why a poor, small country can't defend it's self.

---

(19 November 2012, 15:24)Wildman Wrote:

(19 November 2012, 09:56)Scythe13 Wrote: The oddest thing, for me, is that Hamas hide their launch sites in schools, hospitals, and places like that. Places of high civilian population!

Let's pretend there was a place firing rockets at your people/family/countrymen/fellow soldiers. Would you say "Damn, we can't shoot back incase we hit a civilian?" Would you even know that the shot was coming from a school/nursery/hospital? I very much doubt you would know the layout of the enemy city (why would you? They'd execute you for stepping foot there!) Or, would you think "F**K a missile, quick, fire back at where it came from!!!" BOOM!!! You've just blown up a school.....you bastard....or patriot.....or hero! Their next missile could have been aiming at the school that had your children in. You've just taken out a missile launch area, but you've also just killed 3 female teachers and 15 children! Yes you'll feel bad. However, you've also just saved the lives of 1000's of others! So well done you.

I hate the whole 'Moral Retaliation' principle, and this is from someone that prides themselves with good morals.

Who is sickest, the people who fire on a missile platform based in a school? Or the people that placed the platform in the school in the first place? One action made civilian casualties. The other forced them to happen.

Also, the idea of killing women and children. What's the crack with that? I'm not saying it's right, but when women and children are throwing bricks at you (and bricks can easily kill) you should not fire back? Women in Palestine will pick up a gun and fire it at you. Just as a child will pick up a gun and fire at you. Are you saying you would not want to pull the trigger on them first? To be fair, I would. BANG!!! Little Junior just got smoked. Why? Because it was either him or me? NO! Because if he had gone through me, he would have had my family/friend/co-workers/fellow-soldiers/countrymen/etc.

I'm not saying Israel are right or wrong in their actions. But, what I am saying, is that their actions are understandable. Any rational person that can empathise and place themselves in someone else's position (palestine or Israel) can understand their actions (except for placing weapons platforms in positions that would lead to the execution-by-retaliation positions designed to have the focus on women and children).

I just find it odd that we can see anyone as having a higher or lower moral position. It's war.
During the crusades, pure brutality was a daily thing! This is just a similar situation, without the up close and personal experience of using a sword.


In war, there is no moral ground. There is only win or lose. If you win, you should take a moral stance and be able to justify your actions. "We bombed the mosque, because that is where we were being bombed from. We killed 10 terrorists and 100 civilians. But that site killed nearly 500 of our citizens. If we hadn't clusterbombed the area, it could have taken out another 500+ people."

As for kids picking up the unexploded cluster bombs.......what the f**k are the children doing playing with explosives? That's some good parenting if you ask me! "He kids, this area was bombed recently. Let's go play in it!!!" That's some bad parenting. If somewhere was a known mine field, would you let your kids play there? That's basically what the parents are doing. If their parents are dead, then the sense of community that will be keeping those kids away from that area, is pretty weak!!! Oh, and the authorities and clean up crews that go to sort out the site must also be pretty poor at what they do! "Hey kid, I'll give you 10 shekels for each silver tennis ball you pick up....haha, when he finds one, I'll never have to pay him."

There is no right or wrong. But some people are pretty screwed up letting kids play in bomb sites, and placing weapon centres in shopping centres! Really uncool, if you ask me.

---

Sorry, I just kind of went off on one there.

The sickest nation is the nation who have had every opertunity to live a peaceful life yet war munger with no justification as in to why. I've never heard of any Palestinian doings that weren't out of retaliation. If the whole world dose nothing then I see no reason why a poor, small country can't defend it's self.

I wander if there are any Pali preppers...bet there fucking hard core!!! Lol

[bigpaul]

the Palestinians have been trying to kill off all the Israelis since 1948, they deny Israel even the right to exist, i believe Israel has the right to defend its citizens, if the Palestinians stopped lobbing rockets over the border then the Israelis would stop too, if the fighting dosent stop then there will be a ground war and there will be a lot of dead Palestinians, the IDF have a great big war machine and could just roll over the Palestinians if they so chose.but of course Hamas wont stop or they will lose "face", so be prepared for a lot more killing..on both sides.

[Wildman]

(19 November 2012, 15:32)bigpaul Wrote: the Palestinians have been trying to kill off all the Israelis since 1948, they deny Israel even the right to exist, i believe Israel has the right to defend its citizens, if the Palestinians stopped lobbing rockets over the border then the Israelis would stop too, if the fighting dosent stop then there will be a ground war and there will be a lot of dead Palestinians, the IDF have a great big war machine and could just roll over the Palestinians if they so chose.but of course Hamas wont stop or they will lose "face", so be prepared for a lot more killing..on both sides.

I'm sure The reason for the rockets are coz of Palestinian land being taken. Please someone shed some light

[Scythe13]

(19 November 2012, 15:24)Wildman Wrote: I wander if there are any Pali preppers...bet there fucking hard core!!! Lol

I'd hate to come up against a Pali prepare! They'd send their women and children armed with stones against me. Then they'd say I was evil when I threw those stones back in self defence! Then, they'd barricade themselves in a room and use the women and children as a human shield to stop me retaliating, when they're throwing/shooting at me from behind their own children.

Wait, didn't Palestine fire the first shot?

[Wildman]

(19 November 2012, 15:47)Scythe13 Wrote:

(19 November 2012, 15:24)Wildman Wrote: I wander if there are any Pali preppers...bet there fucking hard core!!! Lol

I'd hate to come up against a Pali prepare! They'd send their women and children armed with stones against me. Then they'd say I was evil when I threw those stones back in self defence! Then, they'd barricade themselves in a room and use the women and children as a human shield to stop me retaliating, when they're throwing/shooting at me from behind their own children.

Wait, didn't Palestine fire the first shot?

So they knowingly 'defend' them selfs against women and children? They must be tough marines! If a Pali bulldozer showed up in Israel to demolish homes, what do u think would happen? If the pali's stop firing would Israel stop stealing land?

[Scythe13]

(19 November 2012, 16:22)Wildman Wrote:

(19 November 2012, 15:47)Scythe13 Wrote:

(19 November 2012, 15:24)Wildman Wrote: I wander if there are any Pali preppers...bet there fucking hard core!!! Lol

I'd hate to come up against a Pali prepare! They'd send their women and children armed with stones against me. Then they'd say I was evil when I threw those stones back in self defence! Then, they'd barricade themselves in a room and use the women and children as a human shield to stop me retaliating, when they're throwing/shooting at me from behind their own children.

Wait, didn't Palestine fire the first shot?

So they knowingly 'defend' them selfs against women and children? They must be tough marines! If a Pali bulldozer showed up in Israel to demolish homes, what do u think would happen? If the pali's stop firing would Israel stop stealing land?

If someone is throwing a rock at your head...whether a man, woman, or child, that can still kill. To that, I say....pull the trigger. Would you rather stand there and have your head smashed in?

If a Pali bulldozer starting screwing over Israeli homes, they'd be killed. Same as they were when they disputed the ARGEED boundaries. Would the Israeli's stop shooting....wait a second.....aren't Israel talking about the ceasefire? They'll keep shooting until the ceasefire is agreed, but until then, if you get shot at....shoot back.

---

Oh, and how can you steal land that was given to you? You can reclaim the land on the preagreed boundaries, but you can't steal what is already yours.

---

We don't say Scotland is stealing land, by separating from the UK. They're just being Scotland. If England claimed back a load of land, then encrouched on preagreed boundaries, Scotland would be justified fighting to keep their land.....same as Israel are doing.

[Wildman]

We raped and murdered the Scott's for a thousand years wrongly and lost. I just can't understand why people can justify their actions.

[Scythe13]

(19 November 2012, 16:48)Wildman Wrote: We raped and murdered the Scott's for a thousand years wrongly and lost. I just can't understand why people can justify their actions.

The same way we, as preppers, could justify killing someone that put our family at risk.

Israel are fighting for their land back. Palestine believe it's their land, and they're fighting for it back.

There's a huge area where nobody lives, and if an Israeli steps foot there, they're shot at. If a Pali steps foot there, they're shot at.

Both sides justify it as fighting for OUR country. Both sides believe the land is theirs.

The same justification will be for both sides. Because it's what we had to do.

There has not been peace since Israel was first established in the Bible (if you believe the Bible) and they said Israel will never be at peace. Oddly, that is 100% correct. If the Bible's prediction for Israel is anything to go buy (spot on so far), there will ALWAYS be war in Israel.

[BDG]

Please, some one tell me who is defending what?



And please, no one be justifying any arguments because it said so in the Bible/Torah/Koran/Janet and John.