Is it really Bows or Guns??

[Tartar Horde]

In my experience most people out there seriously underestimate the lethality of strung weapons, this is no doubt because we live in the age of the Gun and these weapons are considered obsolete. Well trained archers are capable of laying down some frightening fire, and with no noise it is very unsettling to have arrows coming at you.

[UncleFester]

(1 December 2012, 12:19)bigpaul Wrote: the thing with a bow and arrow is that its quiet unlike a gun, by the time anyone realises it they've already got an arrow sticking out of them. also there are times when you want to be quiet(people about) but you still HAVE to go hunting so this is when i will be using my bow and arrow.

Granted bows are quieter than a large center fire rifle but my .22lr is quieter than most air rifles and I can sit head shooting rabbits at 50-90yrds all day long using eley subsonic ammo. How many could hit a rabbit at them ranges let alone kill it outright? Anyone heard a rabbit or hare scream, it's loud and not nice.

Bows are perfect for larger quarry at short ranges but again shot placement needs to be perfect, you need a heart or lung shot for a deer which means your trying to get your 8mm wide arrow into a 4" killzone for the heart or slightly larger for the lungs, you need to be able to do it whilst tired, hungry and buzzing with adrenaline. Arrows don't disperse there energy in the same way as a bullet, a bullet you can miss the heart but the energy/shock wave created by the bullet is still devastating, you miss by even a fraction with an arrow and you won't see that deer again and it will most likely died of infection. Most deer taken in the USA with bows are taken very close ranges usually less than 30yrds and takes a great deal of patients and good bushcraft to get that close.

As for defence purposes I've owned 3 compound bows and was an ok shot but I know I could get through a 10 round mag on my .22 a hell of a lot quicker than I could get off 5 shots with my bow and to a far greater degree of accuracy out to 100yrds.

Don't get me wrong though bows are worth there weight in gold and everyone should have one in there kit, but let's not make silly claims about them been superior to guns for hunting or defence as its just not true. What's a bow send an arrow down range at less than 400fps? A .22lr using subsonic ammo your looking a 1065fps for a .22hornet your looking at 3 times that and that's the lowest power center fire rifle. most center fire rifle shooters consider 1/2-1" groups at 100yds the minimum desired accuracy, who the hell can pull a 1/2" grouping with a bow at them ranges?

[Skean Dhude]

I look at it from a different viewpoint. Ignoring the FAC/SGC and on Plods radar arguement. This is the order I acquired tools and why. Priority Food then defence for me. If I can't eat there is nothing to defend but I live cose to where I can hunt..

Snares and traps. The most efficient way to capture food animals.

Air rifle. For the same sortof prey but outside your local area. Point and shoot anyone can use.

.22 LR. As above but longer range.

Shotgun. As above but larger prey and primary defence weapon. If you only buy one defence weapon this should be it.

Crossbow. Fits in same area a .22LR but for larger prey includung defence. Broadheads as reqd.

Bows. As crossbow but not as easy to use. Broadheads as reqd.

Larger calibre rifles. For larger prey and for longer range defence.

Plasma rifle in the 40-watt range. For serious work.

If I lived in town and couldn't hunt then for home defence.

9mm with suppressor. Intimidating and silent.

Croosbow. For silence. Broadheads as reqd.

Bow for longer distance. Broadheads as reqd.

Shotgun for larger groups. None of our wimpy 3 cart versions or birdshot ammo.

9mm MP5 type SMG.


They don't sell all of these at your local shop so you need to shop around and remember OPSEC.

[Wildman]

i'm betting that pcp and brake barrels will be the future. in the uk the uk power limit is 12ft. in the u.s its something like 24! it dodnt take that much to up the power of a standard brake barrel. a skilful marksman could hit a deer or boar in the eye or throat with a plastic tipped hollow point whilst a killing party could be at the ready. i fear that if the shit realy hit the fan that the human race would hunt to death everything in a short matter of time. it has taken tribes thousands of years to learn how to respect and love their world. pannicked people use to being taken care of by people who destroy will only know the latter.

[Skean Dhude]

Animal won't be hunted to extinction by us after an event. We are just not that organised. We will kill one, kill ourselves fighting over it and slowly starve.Animal will learn to be really wary and around towns and villages they will not be found.However, in woods, and out in the country they will hide until they expand back as the hunters reduce.

When we hunt to extinction we did it as organised teams who killed and killed leaving the meat to rot.

[UncleFester]

(1 December 2012, 22:32)Wildman Wrote: i'm betting that pcp and brake barrels will be the future. in the uk the uk power limit is 12ft. in the u.s its something like 24! it dodnt take that much to up the power of a standard brake barrel. a skilful marksman could hit a deer or boar in the eye or throat with a plastic tipped hollow point whilst a killing party could be at the ready. i fear that if the shit realy hit the fan that the human race would hunt to death everything in a short matter of time. it has taken tribes thousands of years to learn how to respect and love their world. pannicked people use to being taken care of by people who destroy will only know the latter.

Over powered springers are a waste of time mate, I unknowinly took a hw97k in part exchange and it seemed incredibly overpower couldn't better a 4" group at 18yrds in the garden it was atrocious I'm guessing he'd pissed about replacing the spring so I sold it same day, If you want fac power you'd be better with a pcp.

[Wildman]

(2 December 2012, 17:52)UncleFester Wrote:

(1 December 2012, 22:32)Wildman Wrote: i'm betting that pcp and brake barrels will be the future. in the uk the uk power limit is 12ft. in the u.s its something like 24! it dodnt take that much to up the power of a standard brake barrel. a skilful marksman could hit a deer or boar in the eye or throat with a plastic tipped hollow point whilst a killing party could be at the ready. i fear that if the shit realy hit the fan that the human race would hunt to death everything in a short matter of time. it has taken tribes thousands of years to learn how to respect and love their world. pannicked people use to being taken care of by people who destroy will only know the latter.

Over powered springers are a waste of time mate, I unknowinly took a hw97k in part exchange and it seemed incredibly overpower couldn't better a 4" group at 18yrds in the garden it was atrocious I'm guessing he'd pissed about replacing the spring so I sold it same day, If you want fac power you'd be better with a pcp.

i've heard that when a pellet reaches 1115fps it breaks through the sound barrier which rocks the round abit making it go off target. although i agree that its not realistic to hunt this way, i've been researching the posibilty of using real heavy rounds and soaking dental oil in cotton wool with some wadding behind. i'm hoping this would give the round more stabilaty and i'm hoping that the wadding will protect the rifle whilst still compressing the oil. when it comes to pcp's, i believe that there gonna by the future. they run on air, its the pump that must be maintained and the ammo is endless. i've had my heart set on the sumatra 2500 500cc carbine .22

[NorthernRaider]

Guys if you use high powered air rifles you need to use suitable ammo thats all, Stuff like the nylon sabo alloy bodied Promethius pellets which are more aerodynamic, slightly longer and designed for faster parabolic arcs.

[UncleFester]

(2 December 2012, 18:13)Wildman Wrote:

(2 December 2012, 17:52)UncleFester Wrote:

(1 December 2012, 22:32)Wildman Wrote: i'm betting that pcp and brake barrels will be the future. in the uk the uk power limit is 12ft. in the u.s its something like 24! it dodnt take that much to up the power of a standard brake barrel. a skilful marksman could hit a deer or boar in the eye or throat with a plastic tipped hollow point whilst a killing party could be at the ready. i fear that if the shit realy hit the fan that the human race would hunt to death everything in a short matter of time. it has taken tribes thousands of years to learn how to respect and love their world. pannicked people use to being taken care of by people who destroy will only know the latter.

Over powered springers are a waste of time mate, I unknowinly took a hw97k in part exchange and it seemed incredibly overpower couldn't better a 4" group at 18yrds in the garden it was atrocious I'm guessing he'd pissed about replacing the spring so I sold it same day, If you want fac power you'd be better with a pcp.

i've heard that when a pellet reaches 1115fps it breaks through the sound barrier which rocks the round abit making it go off target. although i agree that its not realistic to hunt this way, i've been researching the posibilty of using real heavy rounds and soaking dental oil in cotton wool with some wadding behind. i'm hoping this would give the round more stabilaty and i'm hoping that the wadding will protect the rifle whilst still compressing the oil. when it comes to pcp's, i believe that there gonna by the future. they run on air, its the pump that must be maintained and the ammo is endless. i've had my heart set on the sumatra 2500 500cc carbine .22

I don't think there is ever an issue of a tweaked sub 12ft/lb air rifle pellet reaching sonic levels mate, my eley subs for my .22lr are supposedly 1065fps which is about 100ft/lb and as far as I'm aware the only air rifle with that sort of power is the new 303 Wolverine which is also 100ft/lb.

[SealDriver]

Well I reckon that if you could shoot arrows with the desired effects 'back in the day' at people/animals/small boys with apples on their heads, then the likelihood hood is that a bow will do the job just as well today.

Although due to health and safety regs make sure that IF you are shooting apples off boy's heads that they are wearing safety goggles and a Hi-Vis waist coat...oh and check that they don't have fruit based allergies and that you have an adequate back stop

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Question...Does anyone know where I can get a good, but not too expensive English Longbow?