What are your barter items?

[Reality Jones]

(26 January 2012, 07:37)uks Wrote: Current money will have no value in a post SHTF situation, while gold will it is something that will be able to buy anything.

Ok, Here's a scenario. (post SHTF)


I have killed a couple of pheasants and about a week later I am about to sit down to a nice roast pheasant when there is a knock at the door.
A person outside has smelled the roasting bird and they are starving, I'm also very hungry because it's been a tough winter and food is scarce.

'Please can I buy a bird off of you? They ask.
'What have you got to barter? I ask.
'I have this van full of gold' They say.
'Can I eat it? I ask.
'No!' they reply.
'Can I plant it?' I ask.
'No!' They reply
'Is it a weapon or a tool that i can make use of ?' I ask .
'No!' They reply.
'Then my answer is no!' I reply, 'Your gold is useless'

Who determines how much gold is worth post SHTF?

The Aztecs had an abundant amount of gold but never used it for currency,it was just a pretty rare and shiny metal to them.

[Bobby]

RJ, the point of taking that gold is that one day, hopefully when things start to recover you will be sitting pretty having traded in and bought property/land.

[Reality Jones]

Or I could end up starving to death looking at a room full of pretty but worthless metal.

[bigpaul]

(26 January 2012, 16:08)Scythe13 Wrote: The problem is, after a chat with a few parents on this site, I have come to the conclusion that dealing with a sick parent and trying to exploit their child's illness for personal gain will lead to the playing out of a phrase NR and SD basically said "There are no limits to what I would do to save/protect my family".

i think we are both in agreement there, i'll forget about the inhalers then.

[Bobby]

Inhalers contain epinephrin which, for conversations sake, is the same as ephadrin, a strong stimulant like speed but a little weaker. That's where the fun begins. If you need to outrun someone, run a long distance, BOOM, I'd jack up on that inhaler and get out of dodge. If you need to stay awake...inhaler, If you need to concentrate more.....inhaler. If you need quicker responses....inhaler. All kinds of situations. As long as you're sensible with it, ephadrin is a very useful drug. Not something I personally would barter. I would barter FOR it, but not with it.

Hi Scythe, my inhalers have got ethanol & glycerol. Are they the same thing you say here? Hope so I've got loads!

[Scythe13]

(26 January 2012, 17:57)Reality Jones Wrote: Or I could end up starving to death looking at a room full of pretty but worthless metal.

(26 January 2012, 17:54)Bobby Wrote: RJ, the point of taking that gold is that one day, hopefully when things start to recover you will be sitting pretty having traded in and bought property/land.

Both points are equally valid.

Think about a scenario. Everything collapses and nothing goes back to how it was. The old conception of gold as valuable would be invalid. Gold would be but a meer shiney metal of little value other than jewellery. If mankind didn't develop better technologies, then gold would remain worthless. The reason Gold was used was because it allowed a standardisation of value and a transfer of property. Sounds complicated but it's not...Let me explain:

Gold was originally used as coins by the Romans. The barter system was too variable and a standardisation was called upon for taxing purposes. Since not all items held the same importance to certain people, a system of transfering those items was required. By standardising the monetary system, that allowed the Romans to better extract taxes from the people. Years later in Venice people used be in danger if they carried lots of gold around with them. They used to give their money to the gold merchants to keep in their safes, who used to exchange the coins for slips of paper saying they would recieve their money back when they presented that paper again. People found it easier, and safer to exchange these slips of paper instead of exchanging the gold coins.

That is the very basic explination of money's origins.

If mankind was able to return to how it used to be in the renaissance, then having a standardised value would be important. Gold would make it's barer a king again. In which case Bobby's view would be spot on. You'd be sitting pretty!

Having said that, you would have to survive until that point was reached. Initially stores of Gold would put you in danger, but before long people would ignore it's value. Instead they would be more interested in the items RJ suggests, seeds, and all that.

If mankind returns to it's usual self, we will be back to valuing gold.

If we don't return, or don't live long enough to see the return, then gold would be pretty pointless.

Both views are valid. It just depends on whether you think we will go back to valuing gold in our lifetimes or not.

---

(26 January 2012, 19:27)Bobby Wrote: Hi Scythe, my inhalers have got ethanol & glycerol. Are they the same thing you say here? Hope so I've got loads!

Ethanol is pure alcohol. The effect on the body are the same as alcohol, just not as powerful (but that's only because of the small dose. Oh, and if you think taking more would make you drunk, don't forget alcohol is a poison....the strength of ethanol is so much that you'd get alcohol poisoning before you realised you were drunk). An inhaler shot of ethanol will lower your blood pressure, relax your central nervous system. I assume you have anxiety or panic attacks, and they spark your asthma? It'll a preventative inhaler, to stop you having the attacks in the first place, or it will relax you enough to give you back normal breathing control.

I don't know enough about glycerol, other than you can mix it with a nitrogen based fertilizer and sawdust to make dynamite. You'd need a lot of glycerol though. I don't think an inhaler would be enough.


I remember being a kid and getting a bit hyped from a friends ephadrine based inhaler. But as a barter item, I'd stay clear of them. They would be like waving a banner saying "I can save your kids lives, but it will cost you" That's the kind of thing that gets people killed.

Keep them for yourself mate. Safer that way.

[Prep28]

Personally I don't see an apocalyptic future. More of an Argentinian type economic crisis. Whatever happened, I would not be interested in exploiting what I perceived to be the weakness/vulnerabilites of others (addicts/sick people). I'd hope to trade fairly with others, if at all. I wouldn't underestimate anyone ('they'd go looting for me'). Addicts are survivors, they'd inevitably clean up and from that point of view, they have a headstart in living on their wits with few resources. For me, prepping is about taking care of me & mine in a positive way, not imagining becoming some sort of 'man' in a crisis situation. I find that pretty nihilistic. I hope I'd keep my values in tact. But that's just me.

[Scythe13]

(26 January 2012, 22:29)Prep28 Wrote: Personally I don't see an apocalyptic future. More of an Argentinian type economic crisis. Whatever happened, I would not be interested in exploiting what I perceived to be the weakness/vulnerabilites of others (addicts/sick people). I'd hope to trade fairly with others, if at all. I wouldn't underestimate anyone ('they'd go looting for me'). Addicts are survivors, they'd inevitably clean up and from that point of view, they have a headstart in living on their wits with few resources. For me, prepping is about taking care of me & mine in a positive way, not imagining becoming some sort of 'man' in a crisis situation. I find that pretty nihilistic. I hope I'd keep my values in tact. But that's just me.

All fair comment.

I did say though, that I would be taking an amoral view of the topic. I'm not saying what is right or wrong. Just giving people things to think about and show the way the barter system can be manipulated.

Personally I would rather have a group of people that I knew and trusted. That team would be more than just people to be with. We would be more like the sheepdogs of a situation.

I see things like this, from a moral stand point:
We have Sheep, or sheeple, if you prefer.
The great masses that wonder around blindly, and will continue to do so post situation.
We have Wolves, that prey on the sheep.
The few that we would mostly consider to be scum. Those that would kill first and barter second.
We have Sheepdogs.
These are the people that help the sheeple. Protect them from themselves, and from the wolves.
We have stray dogs.
These are the people that go solo. Some strays would be wolves, others would be German Shepherds. The German Shepherd isn't a fulltime sheepdog, but will help now and again.

---

I think I'm a cross between Sheepdog and German Shepherd. I will protect mine, the group I'm in, and sometimes those outside the group.

I have no interest in exploiting the barter system, or anything like that.

We would be like a wolf-pack, as a team. But with the intention to only hard those that are a direct threat to us.

[Timelord]

Can't eat gold & it will get you killed faster than a rattlesnake can piss...
Best thing you can do with gold, is bury it in a hole & remember where so you can come back for it later if society starts to rebuild. thats why we archaeologists find it in holes nowadays - buried for safekeeping in times of crisis. You don't want to be carrying that around with you. Gold was used long before the Romans and is 99% of the time the basis of monetary systems of a society of some sort. BUT without some form of limited society it is pretty redundant. Historically the more common form of currency was silver. Hacked into small pieces & weighed out to trade. Again, this is only useful where a trading/barter system has developed. The Vikings used "Hack Silver". Personal wealth (of most periods) was worn on the body as jewellery, like arm rings & bracelets & necklaces, rings etc. When silver to barter was needed, one of the items was simply removed & small bits hacked off & weighed out with a tiny set of personal portable weighing scales. The silver item was then kept in a pouch for further use.
I would be really wary of carrying much precious metals initially.

Alcohol spirits is an excellent multicultural barter item and has many uses, medicinal, cooking, light, etc. You can always share a tot with a prospective trade candidate to sweeten the deal :-)

[Bobby]

(26 January 2012, 19:40)Scythe13 Wrote:

(26 January 2012, 17:57)Reality Jones Wrote: Or I could end up starving to death looking at a room full of pretty but worthless metal.

(26 January 2012, 17:54)Bobby Wrote: RJ, the point of taking that gold is that one day, hopefully when things start to recover you will be sitting pretty having traded in and bought property/land.

Both points are equally valid.
Thanks for the info on the inhalers mate.
And I'm totally with you on the gold/silver thing. My point was that food on the table etc is of course the No1 priority, but if you're in the position to, take their gold.
Think about a scenario. Everything collapses and nothing goes back to how it was. The old conception of gold as valuable would be invalid. Gold would be but a meer shiney metal of little value other than jewellery. If mankind didn't develop better technologies, then gold would remain worthless. The reason Gold was used was because it allowed a standardisation of value and a transfer of property. Sounds complicated but it's not...Let me explain:

Gold was originally used as coins by the Romans. The barter system was too variable and a standardisation was called upon for taxing purposes. Since not all items held the same importance to certain people, a system of transfering those items was required. By standardising the monetary system, that allowed the Romans to better extract taxes from the people. Years later in Venice people used be in danger if they carried lots of gold around with them. They used to give their money to the gold merchants to keep in their safes, who used to exchange the coins for slips of paper saying they would recieve their money back when they presented that paper again. People found it easier, and safer to exchange these slips of paper instead of exchanging the gold coins.

That is the very basic explination of money's origins.

If mankind was able to return to how it used to be in the renaissance, then having a standardised value would be important. Gold would make it's barer a king again. In which case Bobby's view would be spot on. You'd be sitting pretty!

Having said that, you would have to survive until that point was reached. Initially stores of Gold would put you in danger, but before long people would ignore it's value. Instead they would be more interested in the items RJ suggests, seeds, and all that.

If mankind returns to it's usual self, we will be back to valuing gold.

If we don't return, or don't live long enough to see the return, then gold would be pretty pointless.

Both views are valid. It just depends on whether you think we will go back to valuing gold in our lifetimes or not.

---

(26 January 2012, 19:27)Bobby Wrote: Hi Scythe, my inhalers have got ethanol & glycerol. Are they the same thing you say here? Hope so I've got loads!

Ethanol is pure alcohol. The effect on the body are the same as alcohol, just not as powerful (but that's only because of the small dose. Oh, and if you think taking more would make you drunk, don't forget alcohol is a poison....the strength of ethanol is so much that you'd get alcohol poisoning before you realised you were drunk). An inhaler shot of ethanol will lower your blood pressure, relax your central nervous system. I assume you have anxiety or panic attacks, and they spark your asthma? It'll a preventative inhaler, to stop you having the attacks in the first place, or it will relax you enough to give you back normal breathing control.

I don't know enough about glycerol, other than you can mix it with a nitrogen based fertilizer and sawdust to make dynamite. You'd need a lot of glycerol though. I don't think an inhaler would be enough.


I remember being a kid and getting a bit hyped from a friends ephadrine based inhaler. But as a barter item, I'd stay clear of them. They would be like waving a banner saying "I can save your kids lives, but it will cost you" That's the kind of thing that gets people killed.

Keep them for yourself mate. Safer that way.