TEOTWAWKI further down the track.

[bigpaul]

Australian site, talks about after TSHTF when stuff starts breaking down and talks about modern survivalists V primitive survivalists. http://australiansurvivalandpreppers.

[John]

So what would your enlightened and experienced view be to this article?

[bigpaul]

hello John, long time no see, have a good Christmas ?? I adhere to the primitive side....although not that primitive more Amish style existence as eventually EVERYTHING will either break or wear out, so modern survivalists who rely on modern equipment and firearms MAY find themselves out on a limb or is that up the creek without a paddle??

[Midnitemo]

I don't see a return to the stoneage/middleages or even 18/19centuries......man strives man progresses I think some entrepreneurs will start the whole ball rolling again pretty quickly after all the knowledge of technology won't go away...people will want there lifestyles to improve...they will strive for it not just sit back and accept there heavy toil unquestioningly

[bigpaul]

who knows? anything is possible, maybe SHTF wont even happen? or maybe its worse than anyone imagined? maybe the "die-off" is less maybe its more? no one can tell, that's why we prep, we hope for the best but plan for the worst.

[Scythe13]

(30 December 2013, 15:32)Midnitemo Wrote: I don't see a return to the stoneage/middleages or even 18/19centuries......man strives man progresses I think some entrepreneurs will start the whole ball rolling again pretty quickly after all the knowledge of technology won't go away...people will want there lifestyles to improve...they will strive for it not just sit back and accept there heavy toil unquestioningly

This is my view too, thus my desire for PM's (let's not go there right now), but just in case, I'm going super primitive knowledge too.

[John]

Anyone ever read I Pencil, Google will find it.
Well worth a contemplative read.

Then see if you still think that when this society, like previous ones, has collapsed we will be able to get back to what we have today. Keep in mind we have used or nearly used all the raw materials from this finite planet of ours which is what allowed us to get where we are today.

But how do you make a pencil? Don't forget the need to mine the ore to smelt the metal to make the saw....etc. etc.

I really feel for people think that after a few years they will still still have any semblance of life as we have now. If they do they are in fantasy land. Nothing I can do about that, you will have to learn the hard way or death, which may be better.

Anyway don't all get on here, Read first, then think, then may be debate it.

[NorthernRaider]

TBH its not only the natural resources or materials that any post apoc society will have to address, if you watched the news about the storms both here and in the US over the last few weeks to realise that the welfare state / reliance on the government to provide every aspect of the sheeps lives is now total.

Listening to the flood victims / power cut victims saying not only could they NOT feed themselves but because they had no leccy they had NO method of communication or intel to inform them of what was happening. Indeed the straggly haired lady asking the news reporter " Who is going to provide us with food / candles/ torches because they did not have anything" etc only proved to me how utterly reliant on the state infrastructure our society has become.

We are indeed a nation of sheep.

[Highlander]

There is nothing wrong with learning the very ancient skills, they will never be out dated and will always have a place in emergencies,... but I dont think that we would fall as far as to really need them, man is a clever creature and he will usually find a way of making do,.. you only have to look at some countries in this world now, there are many that make do with very little and still live reasonable lives,.... nothing like what we are use to now,... but not as bad as some would believe

There would certainly be one hell of a transitional period people these day think its the end if they cant charge a phone,..... but eventually things would settle down to some sort of level

[Scythe13]

This is an interesting debate.

We pretty much all agree there will be a die off. So, working from that stand point, the limited resources of the planet will be better 'rationed' out to the populace. People will have a much higher 'per capita' of iron, steel, aluminium, carbon, etc, as a result of the die out.

However, as HL said, mankind is resilient and will find ways to make things work. Reusing metal from cars and the alike. Rebuilding roads using different materials.

If the nation, as NR puts it, is able to survive, then I'd agree with him totally...we're all screwed as a species. However, I do also agree with MNM that entrepreneurial individuals will find a way to make it better.

It may well be that we, as preppers, become that entrepreneurial few.

Could well be time to brush up on the good old forge systems and the alike.