old blackpowder guns

[CharlesHarris]

Mortblanc is spot-on. Another factor is that prior to the 1850s a great many guns by small makers were not of steel, but of iron, often of hammer-welded, twist construction. Many shotgun barrels prior to smokeless powder were twist lamination of iron and steel, often in complex, decorative patterns. Such barrels should be considered suspect even when used with blackpowder, unless magnetic particle inspected, using the wet method with continuous circular magnetization, or my other means such as xray or ultrasonic inspection. Unless you have access to lab test equipement, inspection effective of Damascus or twist steel barrels is not cost effective. On higher grade guns it is worthwhile to have them retubed and reproofed, but that is an expensive proposition.

But STEEL barrels of good quality and workmanship, in sound condition, with well fitted breech plug and properly tuned lock are a joy to behold. I would love to have an original Brown Bess musket or early American flintlock rifle, such as the 1803 Pattern Harper's Ferry carried across the Rocky Mountains by Lewis and Clark.

We have in the family an 1861 Springfield .58 cal. rifle-musket, which was carried by an ancestor during the War Between the States, aka The American Civil War, or the War of Northern Agression, depending upon which side your ancestor fought on. The rifle still shoots well, and if well taken care of, should continue to for at least another four to six generations or so.

[Tartar Horde]

Thank you for the replies, I have looked at a few old BP weapons in various museums during my studies and I was surprised at how "clean" they looked. The main problem seems to be the wood that deteriorates quicker than the metal parts, and a lot of these weapons have damaged stocks.
I believe that knowledge is power, and even though I have no intention at the moment in owning one, having some information regarding safety may serve me in the future if conditions change, forewarned is forearmed. Another point is that England is stuffed with museums full of all sorts of goodies for us poor unarmed Limey's

[Mortblanc]

[Steve]

Fascinating stuff Mortblanc, thanks for sharing those stories.

[MoleTrapper]

I like to make my own ball fishing weights with moulds I have bought of the bay, I have them in several different measurements!

[Mortblanc]

Thank you for the replies, I have looked at a few old BP weapons in various museums during my studies and I was surprised at how "clean" they looked. The main problem seems to be the wood that deteriorates quicker than the metal parts, and a lot of these weapons have damaged stocks.
I believe that knowledge is power, and even though I have no intention at the moment in owning one, having some information regarding safety may serve me in the future if conditions change, forewarned is forearmed. Another point is that England is stuffed with museums full of all sorts of goodies for us poor unarmed Limey'sBig Grin

TH the reason the metal on those specimens looks so "clean" is due to a coating of preservation wax. The parts are dipped in the liquid, which stabilized the crap out of them. They can sit in that museum for another 1,000 years and show zero continued aging.

One odd thing about archeological work; if you are at a dig and they uncover a barrel, lock parts and trigger guard they refer to it as a "complete gun". They seldom consider the possibility of the stock surviving.

I was at a dig once and we found a complete pistol with wood stock intact down a well we were excavating. As soon as air touched the wood it started to crumble. We were forced to bring the pistol up in a large container of water and stabilize it in a liquid bath before we could expose it to air.

Any person living under "restrictions" should acquire certain "knowledge". Even if they can not purchase a firearm they should know how to build a simple firearm. They should know how to produce propellant, or what can be used as propellant and what can be turned into projectiles. Having that knowledge is not breaking the law, and when you need the knowledge the law will not apply.

This is the 21st century, the knowledge is all over the internet and there is absolutely no excuse for not having it as part of ones survival planning.

Always remember, it was not the full auto assault rifle that made the longbow obsolete, it was the match lock musket!

And as soon as European traders made the crudest flintlocks available to the native Americans they abandoned the bow.

Yes, a few remnants clung to the bow, but those remnants are among the extinct groups. The large tribes that survived were the ones that grabbed guns asap.

I know those are fighting words to some here, but they are the facts.

[CharlesHarris]

[Mortblanc]

Most of those Nepalese muskets were the East India Pattern, which was the same model that was used by the Mexicans at the Alamo and in the 1848 War. They were retained in service in remote areas until the late 1800s, even after the adoption of the SMLE, sometimes skipping the adoption of the cap-lock system and single shot cartridge guns altogether.

Most of the "Kits" they are speaking of are the metal remains taken off the decomposed stocks and sold with a 90% finished replacement stock made from Beech. The barrel, lock and hardware are mostly original.

One of the things the recent movies have gotten correct is the rate of fire for these muskets. A well trained and practiced trooper could get off 3-4 shots per minute using the paper cartridges.

The young man in the video is doing things the safe way. The original procedure was.

1. place the lock in half cock position
2. tear open the cartridge with the teeth
3. prime the pan and close the battery
4. pour the rest of the charge down the barrel
5.ram the ball on top of the powder

I have one musket with a drilled out flash hole modified so that the main powder charge will flow into the priming pan by gravity. That eliminates the priming step altogether, but it does create a weapon that shoots fire 6 feet to the right from the flash hole!

Most folks do not realize that our popular shotgun sizes are directly descended from the ML muskets of past eras.

Brown Bess was 10 gauge
Officer's Carbines, assorted light infantry muskets and Sea Service pistol were 12 gauge
French issue musket was 16 gauge
French militia musket was 20 gauge
British and U.S. cap-lock .577 musket was 28 gauge

[CharlesHarris]

[Timelord]

A very useful thread. As already mentioned by MortBlanc, I will reiterate for those enquiring readers - Contrary to modern gun mythology, the blackpowder muskets are not completely inaccurate and useless as to not be able to hit a barn door. They are reasonably accurate to hit centre mass of a man sized target easily up to 50 paces. Beyond that the accuracy does decrease in uniform gradient but is still quite useable out to about 200 paces with practice.. Other variables can always be applied but generally this info holds true. This accuracy at these ranges is more than enough for the likely scenarios for self defence and in fact ranges are usually pretty close in this respect. This indicates that black powder pistols of the pre revolver type are also effective tools at likely combat ranges for self defence. Historical data and use demonstrates this. In fact there is a lot to be said for a slower moving but greater mass projectile. The soft lead as well as dumping ALL its energy into the target, can also cause devastating wounds as it sometimes shears apart under impact. If you think 50cal is big, try musket and BP pistol calibres like .69 or larger. These were the typical calibres of the day. One hit and out!
Additionally the utility of smooth bore barrels allows different projectile loads - multi ball or "oblong" shot or wired shot or buck & ball, fletchetts, mini bullet, etc etc
These type of weapons can be expediently run under poor field conditions, whereas modern cartridge ammo might not be available.