real life shtf

[Sunna]

as we all know the shtf for the poor folk of Nepal a few days back , aid comes in from many places around the world , tents , food , ect but I guess nowhere near enough.
if something like that hit us how would we cope with most buildings including , police, army , hospitals , supermarkets , roads , rail, water treatment works almost everything gone over night.

would we recover.

could we recover .

now before somebody spoils this thread before it gets started [I know we don't get big quakes in the uk ] its a get you thinking thread...

[Straight Shooter]

Yes we could and would recover as Nepal surly will also...the main problem is and will be in future Nepal will rely on the good will of others simply because they lack the infrastructure money and resources to help themselves...if they had oil or gold and diamonds under their feet governments the globe over would be in there like rats up a shit pipe. Over here although equally devastating...we have reasonable infrastructure loads of earth moving excavators , helicopters, and mainly the expertise and staffing to carry out the task....just like we did in WW2...even chaves would have to haul arse.

[bigpaul]

makes you think when the death toll in Nepal is TWICE the entire population of my location. what if it wasn't one small area but nationwide? everything that people depend on would be gone, could the ordinary person survive? hell no! they wouldn't know where to start, and the worst time to find that out is AFTER an event happens.

[Devonian]

Yes we could and would recover and far more quickly than Nepal ever will.

We are fortunate to be a rich country with plenty of resources, just consider the number of excavator; cranes; tipper trucks and general construction plant/equipment etc that we have access to compared with Nepal.

Even after severe storms when huge areas are without power because miles and miles of overhead cables and posts/pylons have been taken out, the power companies usually manage to get everyone back on the power within 48 hours, but even if it was 1000 times worse than we have previously experienced, then maybe it would take a few weeks or even a month or two instead of a couple of days. You can also be sure that the hospitals and other key assets would be reconnected more quickly.

The problem with Nepal is not only that it is a poor country, but that it simply does not have the necessary infrastructure to easily get around the country; plus it doesn't have the heavy plant and machinery AND most of the building are very poorly constructed and have little strength to resist any kind of tremors, especially the bigger ones.

As I understand it Kathmandu was also completely flattened by a quake back in the 50's or 60's???

So Nepal has already rebuilt once in recent history, they will do it again.

[bigpaul]

I wish I could have such a complacent view of any catastrophe, but I cant. maybe back when we had proper "statesmen" who cared about the country but the modern lot of politicians hate the country and have only contempt for the population, their only interest is one of SELF interest, even when they turn up at a disaster its only for a "photo opportunity", the real work is done by lesser mortals paid a pittance for their efforts, so no, I don't give out much hope in a major disaster, well- outside of the "Westminster bubble" that is.

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" couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" springs to mind.

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I cant think of any Devon council that has its own DIRECT workforce any more. so it will all be sub contractors...IF they even have enough employees to get the job done, and even if they are in the right place.

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and if the power grid goes down? there wont be enough generators to go around, that's even if the fuel can be pumped out of the tanks...remember no power!! remember the flooding on the Somerset levels? they didn't even have enough pumps they had to "borrow" them from Holland. so NO, I'm not holding my breath.

[Mortblanc]

You would rebuild, and you would get outside help, and you might not like the rebuild process.

When the Katrina/Rita hurricane series hit over here in 2005 it destroyed an area about the size of the UK. Completely washed away much of the infrastructure housing and support network.

What has happened in that rebuild process is a selective rebuilding of the area with the knowledge that another massive natural force could strike again at any time. Entire subsections of the area will never be reconstructed.

[bigpaul]

they built the Thames Barrier, that was great for awhile, but I think I read some years ago that this wont even be enough in the future and will be overwhelmed. the Somerset Levels at some point may go back to being a permanent wetland. parts of the southern coast are being eroded at a fast rate, already several roads have been undermined and lost and many houses have collapsed into the sea, look what happened at Dawlish, they are talking about a inland relief route over Dartmoor but that's all they are doing...TALKING. and by recent news it looks like Hinckley Point C power station may not be built after all.

[Devonian]

(2 May 2015, 17:14)bigpaul Wrote: I wish I could have such a complacent view of any catastrophe, but I cant. maybe back when we had proper "statesmen" who cared about the country but the modern lot of politicians hate the country and have only contempt for the population, their only interest is one of SELF interest, even when they turn up at a disaster its only for a "photo opportunity", the real work is done by lesser mortals paid a pittance for their efforts, so no, I don't give out much hope in a major disaster, well- outside of the "Westminster bubble" that is.

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" couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" springs to mind.

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I cant think of any Devon council that has its own DIRECT workforce any more. so it will all be sub contractors...IF they even have enough employees to get the job done, and even if they are in the right place.

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and if the power grid goes down? there wont be enough generators to go around, that's even if the fuel can be pumped out of the tanks...remember no power!! remember the flooding on the Somerset levels? they didn't even have enough pumps they had to "borrow" them from Holland. so NO, I'm not holding my breath.

BP, no disrespect, but that post makes you sound like the common sheeple, waiting for TPTB to rescue you!

Do you honestly believe that the 1000's building contractors and plant hire companies, not to mention the farmers, and others etc would just sit back and say oh shite what do we do now, we're all going to die?

No, of course not.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there will not be trouble or death or despair, of course there will, but.......we have seen it a thousand times up and down the country, that in times of adversity people pull together, especially if we are talking about natural disasters. It doesn't have to mean the end of the world as we know it.

Farmers and plant hire companies already get out there during and after storms to clear the roads of debris; trees; snow etc, it isn't just left to the local authorities to sort.

Also as in my previous post we see it every year where linesmen will travel the country helping out other regions to get the power back on, it happens, it's a fact.

Also take the Somerset floods last year, look at how the farmers and others all rallied together to help each other. And we've all seen instances of builders providing there services free of charge to help those affected by the floods.

Another example is the Aberfan disaster in South Wales, again everyone came together and helped, just as they are right now in Nepal.

As for Devon County having no Direct Workforce, well it doesn't actually need one, instead it has access to a workforce many times larger through numerous private companies who provide the services needed. For example SWH is the old Devon County direct workforce and they now work almost exclusively for Devon county and other local authorities, then in addition to this, there is actually an entire network of both professionals/consultants; and contractors that have term contracts with the county.

Even the MoD works like this, in this case they are referred to as Prime Contracts and the responsibility for everything from catering to maintenance to the construction of new sites is carried out by the Prime Contractors, but again they do not actually do the work, they use subcontractors.

And as for the Politicians, well they will have bugger all involvement, disaster relief is coordinated locally in the UK, it is not something that the politicians have any active involvement in. We don't an equivalent of FEMA so there will be no national approach, it will be down to County/District level to sort but it really will be a case of the communities coming together rather than the authorities

[bigpaul]

have it your own way Dev, but with everything being cut to the bone and cut again I just wonder if it will pan out like you envisage. I tend to err on the side of caution, "prepare for the worst, hope for the best", if I expect it to go pear shaped then I wont be taken by surprise when it does. and NO I don't expect TPTB to rescue me..the opposite in fact.!!!! and I have worked in Civil Engineering(as well as construction).

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I have been around for a lot longer than most on this site and I have seen this country fall further and further after each successive government, I'm not sure how much further we can go before we become a third world power but each time we have a general election it seems to get worse not better. anyway that's all I'm going to say, I'm going to take a back seat and let you lot get on with it. I'm tired of trying to make people see the light and getting nowhere. see you around, maybe.

[Devonian]

But we are not talking normal everyday life, we are talking about 'real life SHTF' on something of the scale experienced in Nepal, not societal collapse, but real life disaster.

It doesn't matter if the councils budgets have been cut, they will simply requisition what they need. OK, things will not be sorted overnight and it will take years to get back to where it was, but yes it can be done, it doesn't have to mean that if we have a huge natural disaster that we will then automatically have societal collapse followed by a mass die off and the further disintegration of all infrastructure.

My point if you go back to my original post which was in response to Sunna, is that yes we would recover, yes we would rebuild and that we are far better placed and equipped than say Nepal is to do that. And if they can do it, why can't we?