rebuilding post collapse.

[bigpaul]

Following on from the technology thread I would like to say thus: we CANNOT rebuild what went before, in a TOTAL collapse of all the systems, if there are enough survivors left we can build some form of "community" once the dust settles, but it will be a basic community, everything done by hand or by using horses, ponies or donkeys(riding horses are no good for pulling carts...not trained and too highly strung)if we have enough of a supply of tools (scrounge them now from car boots, markets and hardware shops)and have a supply of heirloom seeds. its more likely to be "subsistence farming" more like allotment gardening than open fields (ever seen the old "leper strips" still to be seen in some places?) and we wont be growing large fields of wheat and corn. foraging and snaring (fishing if near the sea) will form the other part of the triangle. I have always said try to keep it simple, trying to set up wind turbines and solar electric systems may be possible for some, I don't have an engineering degree so i'll just stick to getting up when it gets light and going to bed when its too dark to do anything. I (and my contemporaries) grew up eating food that was "in season" if it wasn't in season we didn't have it to eat. both the wife and I have lived "off grid" with no mains electric, water or sewage, many alive today(under 50) have not and will not cope and therefore will not survive, they will NOT want to survive, so I expect the suicide rate to rocket WHEN TSHTF. Ben Fogle said on one of his "new lives in the wild" programmes that if TSHTF " I would not want to survive" and there will be many like that. the die off will be huge, maybe slow to start with but will then escalate. we-as a nation- can only grow about 60% of our food-the rest is imported- and that % drops every year as the land becomes less productive( I saw a NFU report saying just this) without imports we can only feed a fraction of the current population. in 1750 when the "industrial revolution" began the population of this country was only 6 million or less than 10% of the current numbers, I really think it will be that again one day.

[Straight Shooter]

I would agree with your view BP .....because its probably the worse case scenario.....by hand... make no mistake is hard work but very doable particularly if your in a small to medium group...if your on your own you may last a bit ....but not long i fear ....the odds increase with age...BUT ....even oldies can be of enormous help and knowledge within any group....and worth keeping fed and watered.

[bigpaul]

and get and keep as many of those "how to do" books as you can SS, they will be worth more than gold dust post TEOTWAWKI, information and knowledge will be key to any survival, group or otherwise.

[Straight Shooter]

Yes BP like you i hold a lot of books...i favour books for information above anything electronic ... this is just my view though....kindle or computers can store more in a tiny tiny space but if you drop it you loose everything ...one trait i have picked up over the past few years is to write down in a hard backed book is tips, formulas, recipes,and anything i deem would be of use to me....and the ones that follow on from me.....one of my better traits !

[Mortblanc]

BP, to come to this conclusion one must assume, or presume three things.

1. Any SHTF event is world wide.

2. All other cultures have the same nature as the British people and their tendency toward depression and easy acceptance of suicide over hardship.

3. GB is the center of the universe and no recovery anywhere in the world can take place without the permission of the losers trapped on your island.

[Straight Shooter]

Don,t see anything wrong with number three MB, reasonable enough to me ! pal.

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Maybe now would be a good time for a history lesson on the rise of America and how much loved America is all around the globe right now.....like all empires overreach is a bitch....by the time this is figured out by the idiots in charge.....you will be sat besides us looses in the soup kitchen.....down in Devon.

[Devonian]

(13 June 2015, 18:37)Straight Shooter Wrote: Don,t see anything wrong with number three MB, reasonable enough to me ! pal.

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Maybe now would be a good time for a history lesson on the rise of America and how much loved America is all around the globe right now.....like all empires overreach is a bitch....by the time this is figured out by the idiots in charge.....you will be sat besides us looses in the soup kitchen.....down in Devon.

Sorry, but Devon is definitely closed (don't you agree BP)..... try Shropshire instead

[Straight Shooter]

Yep you will have noticed no mention of South Wales either DEV...after watching DELIVERANCE we do not want to be made to squeal like little piggies while out canoeing on the river TAFF .

[bigpaul]

what some people seems to not realise is that we in the western world are so interdependent on each other, we do not live in our own little world we are all connected by business/commerce/banking/ power generation and delivery systems, our food comes from the other side of the world, a lot of our clothes are shipped in from places like China, so a serious collapse would not just affect the UK but probably most of the western nations and definitely our cousins the other side of the "pond".

[Scythe13]

As long as people survive, the human genius will survive. We will be planting large fields of crops and the alike. Society will survive. The Mayans did crops, but they were killed off with a virus. Babylonians used farming, but war destroyed them. The Egyptians used crops, but they were destroyed by…..oh wait, they're still around. The British empire was destroyed by the plague and the capital city burned down, but they survived.

All major civilisations have used farming. That is the only option that'll get us through. The farmer pays the local people for protection through food. Simple as that. Those groups of marauders will actually be in the employ of the ruling party. Namely, those capable of bringing together people of purpose.

If we have been there once, we can get there again. It might just take a really long time. Ever heard of reverse engineering?