Just for fun scenario

[Midnitemo]

I don't feel the need to rebel against the system from the off...it might just be the right thing to do under the circumstance imposing these measures/martial law...tptb might actually be getting it right...kick against it if it's phoney/pointless or just plain wrong by all mean's but at least wait and see....invasion force/occupying then I guess I'd already be dead or in a camp.

[Mortblanc]

It is very simple.

From the America viewpoint...

Scythe presented an imaginary scenario.

In his imaginary scenario you have been invaded by an OCCUPATION FORCE.

You pick any little ole occupation army you want, it's your choice. It just can't be the local minions you guys have so little respect for. It has to be a group that will put a gun butt into your teeth if you back talk them.

The Soviet army would work, they managed to maintain ML over all of eastern Europe for quite a while as well as over their own people. (way over 60 million) Where were you during the 20th Century?

OK we will do that. The Soviet Union has come across the north European plains (it took them four days to reach the coast) and their Navy met them on the French coast to ferry them to the white cliffs of Dover. Every British military base was overrun by Soviet airborne troops when the action began and your military rendered useless. In about 24 hours they were at land's end and in control of every square inch of your island.

There is your imaginary scenario. Actually it is the scenario we used for training NATO forces during the 1970s. At least it was the one we used over here in all the mech infantry training.

You guys can imagine all sorts of things you want to happen, like surviving a 90% die off, coming out of TEOTWAWKI with more than you went in and ruling the new economy with the gold and silver buried in your back yard.

What is the big problem with IMAGINING one with an occupation army that will not take any $h!% off of the population?

[Straight Shooter]

So what would YOU do MB ? other than criticize us poor bastards who know nothing ? throw us a bone here !

[Mortblanc]

What I would do and what you would do will differ based on our locations and culture. This is indeed one of the areas where YOU would not be able to comprehend the American reaction to the situation.

For a start, we have a term for the situation Scyhthe has proposed, we refer to it as a "Red Dawn Scenario". It is named after a movie first released in the mid 1980s that followed the plot of an occupation of U.S. soil. If you ask any American prepper what he would do in a Red Dawn Scenerio he will have an answer and the answer will differ based on age, physical condition, previous military experience and the size of the persons gonads.

First of all you have four groups in the occupation scenario; resistance, those supporting the resistance, compliers and collaborators. These categories are self explanatory and should not take pages of discussion, except that you must be actively engaged in sabotage or combat to be classified as part of the resistance. Lip service does not count.

There might be a fifth group to consider that would be tricky to classify, the black market structure. They are crooks and should be used but not trusted and you never procure resistance equipment on the Black market.

The first thing I would do as soon as I heard an invasion was in process would be to burry my firearms in caches on state or federal land. Yes I already have the materials needed out in the shed.

No I would not turn them in. I would not have too, my guns are not in a national registry. I am licensed and permitted to purchase guns, but I am on file, the guns are not. I have many firearms that have been traded, swapped or purchased face to face in private LEGAL transactions. They go into the ground, and even if found they can not be traced back to me. As a known owner and shooter I will turn some things in, but they will be odd and obsolete items I keep specifically for that purpose.

Food stocks would also be buried in more convenient locations for easier retrieval.

Next, I would settle in, appear to comply, and not draw any unnecessary attention to myself, and wait.

I have a large family, all with military training, and they will gather, and their former military comrades will gather. They have guns, but they will need more, and they will need the training I have to do the jobs they must do.

I am fortunate that my military training records were burned in a huge mysterious fire in the records depot in St. Louis, Missouri back in the 1980s, just before all the records were scanned onto computer. A fortunate occurrence of fate??? Hopefully I would not be arrested due to former training or rank.

Right now my nation has a large number of veterans in their 20s-30s who are still in good physical condition and well trained in counter terrorism. Many of their fathers and grandfathers fought against a guerilla force in Viet Namn. Guess who makes the best terrorist? The man that is trained to fight against them.

We have been, along with the British military, running a very large occupation force of our own for ten years in Iraq and Afghanistan. What was the device most feared in Iraq? Not snipers, not the AK rifles. It was the IED, the improvised explosive device buried under the roadway at night after cerview and detonated by a cell phone.

And strangely, our women's' rights movement has resulted in a large number of women entering the military, and each one of them is combat trained and firearms qualified.

These people would make up the resistance.

I will probably die after a year has passed. I will run out of medication for my heart condition, and the food caches will be almost empty. That or the occupation forces will drag me into the street and shoot me during the first week.

I would be a supporter of the resistance, but not a direct resistance fighter. Too old and broke down for that.

Compliance does not guarantee survival! You comply, make no waves, be the gray man, and they starve you to death. They will tear up your veggie plot, kill your chickens, shoot holes in your rain barrels and track you down and shoot you if you try to use a radio.

Keep in mind that the Soviets have systematically starved several nations nearly into extinction, (the Ukraine in the 1930s for one and East Germany after WW2) so I would not expect any distribution of food or medicines.

During that year I have, I would attempt to transfer all the information I have and the locations of all my caches to my sons. I would hope that they fight the resistance for as long and as hard as the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan have done against the American, Canadian and UK forces.

Imagination and innovation comes into play for that process. If one can not imagine this scenario then one can not imagine how to plan for or against it. One can not imagine how to improvise devices or weapons, how to make them, how to hide them or how to use them. They can not Imagine how to obtain weapons from the enemy. They can not imagine how to maintain a food supply, obtain items on the black market or even who would be the first person you contacted to reach the black market.

Your CCTV network, facial recognition system, drones with IR and flir capabilities make efficient operations in GB very difficult. In the U.S. we have resisted, opposed and prevented the CCTV system from existing in most areas. Some things would be a little easier for us.

[Straight Shooter]

A good post MB ! a lot in there for us over here ! and i dare say over there....it would be more productive to have given us this post earlier ....rather than going around the bushes pointing out short comings of others...the benefits are far better and more appreciated and defiantly to the point. Thanks.

[Mortblanc]

Sorry, but everyone was too busy arguing that it was impossible to IMAGINE such a thing, or it was an absolute impossibility, to discuss it.

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Now, would there be a resistance movement in GB, and what would it look like?

[Straight Shooter]

Yes to the resistance movement..without a doubt ...what that would look like? I would struggle with a good enough explanation as i am not ex military BUT within your post there are good insights to what works to maximize resistance activity......you also point out BLACK MARKETS this is something that stood out big time for me ...desperate people would be easy pray ...very dangerous...you say never buy goods for resistance activity and never trust them...i see the sense of what you say.....what is your recommendation of How we should deal with these people to protect ourselves...are there methods or protocols to help us ? another point caches of food and other preps Would we do better to remove these from the comforts of easy access of our homes.

[Skean Dhude]

BP,

It is a scenario so just play along or ignore the thread.

In fact it is a lot easier than you think. Most of us would comply with no issues. So it isn't 200,000 against 60M but 59M against 1M and 300,000 of them would be heavily armed, trained and supported by the other 59M.

I'm with Midnitemo. I'd hide the remainder of my stuff and play along.

[bigpaul]

I don't think we have ever had martial law in this country, even in WW2 it was more a case of everyone pulling together and obeying the rules, something I cannot see the modern generation doing, I can see rioting in the streets and general anarchy if it is imposed, I cannot see anyone for instance accepting rationing. it might be a fun scenario but I cannot ever see the circumstances of it ever happening, I think events will happen too fast for TPTB to ever get their fingers out given the public schoolboys that pass for politicians these days, I refer you to the flooding on the Somerset Levels as an indicator, it took several weeks and some public chastisement of the PM to get things moving. nope, by the time anything gets organised, if it ever does, it will be far too late and the population will already be suffering as a result.

[Mortblanc]

(14 July 2015, 08:16)Straight Shooter Wrote: Yes to the resistance movement..without a doubt ...what that would look like? I would struggle with a good enough explanation as i am not ex military BUT within your post there are good insights to what works to maximize resistance activity......you also point out BLACK MARKETS this is something that stood out big time for me ...desperate people would be easy pray ...very dangerous...you say never buy goods for resistance activity and never trust them...i see the sense of what you say.....what is your recommendation of How we should deal with these people to protect ourselves...are there methods or protocols to help us ? another point caches of food and other preps Would we do better to remove these from the comforts of easy access of our homes.

Always remember that in a state of occupation all the normal rules are gone. You are under military law. There is no arrest and due process, legal representation, trial by jury, appeals system.

You have no rights!

Many "crimes" will be punishable by immediate execution. More will be punishable by abduction into labor camps. You will simply disappear. The only time a trial will be granted will be to make an example of an individual. Show trials.

One must determine the risk they will take for the actions in question based on the severity of the reactions if caught.

If having extra food is not really that big a deal to the troops enforcing the rules it might be worth the risk, if confiscation is the only punishment. If being tied to a lamp post and beaten with a chain is the punishment I would think real hard about eating the food as soon as it is removed from the cache and before walking home.

If violation of cerview results in immediate execution then look over your shoulder and find out if the bad guys have night vision before you slip out the door into the night.

Use some common sense and remember, THE OCCUPATION FORCES DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU DO!

If you think you have a difficult time dealing with me and my differences in culture just imagine looking down the business end of an AK into the reptilian eyes of a 19 year old ISIS fighter and trying to talk your way out of a situation.

At the very minimum you are about to get your teeth knocked out with a rifle butt. Choice #2, a fast death, #3 watching your family executed in front of you before a slow cruel end.

Black market??? What do you need and do not have, and who do you go to for it ?????

Right now, what is the most illegal substance you can think of??

Are people getting it????

Right now in my area we have a heroin addiction problem. Heroin has been illegal for production, possession and use since 1914! Mandatory minimum sentences of up to 10 years have filled our prisons. Still we have thousands of people addicted to the stuff.

I do not use it. However, I could make a phone call, and that person would make a phone call and within an hour the substance would be delivered to my door.

That is a black market.

Sad to say, but the people that are involved in the black market today are the first ones that will be involved during the occupation, usually due to the need for barter. They will be the first to have goods they need to move.

If you do not know who your friendly neighborhood drug dealer is ask your kids. They will tell you they do not know,,,,but they do.

It is a high risk job, and the dealers will be caught because the new regime does not have to follow the present rules. They will pick him up and snip off fingers and toes until he reveals both sources and customers, so do not buy any supplies for resistance work on the black market. Cigarettes, liquer, clothing, shoes, medication, YES. Paint, chemicals, fertilizer, watches, phones, guns, ammo,,,NO!

Do not buy anything on the black market that the occupation really considers dangerous. Hopefully they will get the names of everyone on the block or in the neighborhood as customers and you will be lost in the numbers.

Fact is, GB had a very healthy black market back during the War. Not everyone appreciated or followed the rationing guidelines. Farmers made a good bit of money selling agricultural fuel on the side, since they were the only "civilians" with access to fuel. Meat was also traded on the black market, as well as cigarettes and some clothing items, luxury goods like makeup, perfumes and soap.

France was not so lucky under the Nazis. They had ZERO fuel rations. Therefore any vehicle on the road had best be government. All civilian vehicles being driven had obtained their fuel illegally. (unless they were wood gasifiers) prima facia evidence of guilt, !!BANG!! Problem solved.

The real fact is that the more respect a culture has for the law, the more civilized they are, the easier it is for the occupation to enforce their power.

At the end of WW2 when the allies outlawed the private ownership of firearms in Germany the very civilized and law abiding population marched down and turned in their firearms, just like you fellows did all your pistols a few years back. You are compelled to follow the law or all civilization breaks down,,,right?

When British and American forces entered Iraq in 2003 and before any rules were set down, the ground looked like the surface of the moon it was so cratered with weapons burial sites. My sons told me of finding caches of 500 pound bombs hidden in the basements of school buildings, buying AK rifles in the bazars for $15 U.S., and cases of ammo for $5!!!

And I will bet there is not a civilian in Afghanistan that can not lay hands on a rifle inside of two minutes.

And they have been occupied for how long now???