Just for fun scenario

[Devonian]

(16 July 2015, 11:24)Midnitemo Wrote: I struggle to believe we would get invaded and annexed without us pushing the big red button , I figure there wouldn't be much left to come here for after that , we always have at least one nuclear missile armed sub at sea often more than one , only a few countries capable of invading us , one we have a "special" relationship with one is as far away as you can get so logistically almost impossible and the other is Ivan the terrible we would surely look to Nato and our special friends if Ivan came knocking and I feel this would lead to either a very tense stand off or Armageddon......martial law imposed by our own government I can believe though.

Yep I tend to agree with all of that, but with martial law I think it could only ever be effectively enforced in the Cities and some of the larger towns. And given the urban landscape accounts for only 10.6% of England, 1.9% of Scotland, 3.6% of Northern Ireland and 4.1% of Wales (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096), that leaves an awful lot of space people for people to move around in who are not under the control of martial law.

[Mortblanc]

Very interesting.

So you do not feel anyone else would ever invade you??? You should talk to the Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, William the Conqueror, Napoleon, and Hitler about that.

You have been very fortunate in resisting invasion for almost 1000 years, but you have never done well against a group that actually made it to your shores in large numbers. Too many citizens trying to be the "gray man" while a very small armed force exerted their will over the gray masses.

And are you claiming that a British Nuke should be used on British soil? Do you want that nuke used on your own town or the next one over?

Or should that nuke be used against a power that could retaliate in kind?

How about against a power that has no home country, like ISIS. Are you going to nuke their staging grounds in Spain or France?

And I did mention the much less than successful use of the "gray man" in most of the occupation scenarios. Occupation forces love the "gray men", they make no trouble for anyone and do not require a large number of troops to control. Gray men do not make a big fuss as you starve them. They very compliantly walk through the gates of the concentration camps, not wanting to draw attention to themselves. Most of the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis were trying to be "gray men". Every occupation soldier wants ever victim of an occupation to be the gray man.

So let us see here...
We have one group that thinks your own government would impose ML on the population...
and another group that thinks the government does not have enough manpower to do so...
another group that believe no one would ever want to invade, though it has happened several times
and another suggestion of using nukes, either on home soil or against the invading foe's country
and we have the ever present group that feels slavery/extermination is not really that bad, be gray

Again,
Very interesting.

[bigpaul]

I think the OP was about martial law NOT invasion(why would anyone want to invade such a small island? the last time it was successful was 1066, both the Spanish and the Nazis have tried AND FAILED!!)

[Midnitemo]

Mort I was suggesting that whoever was attempting to invade us woud like as not be getting a nuclear bloody nose from our "deterrent" which I expect they would respond in kind probably manyfold in a vain attempt at stopping anymore launches....Isis cannot and will not be allowed to proliferate much further , I know governments procrastinate for an eternity about such matters but the time for all out action is near.

[Devonian]

MB, the World is a very different place to what it was during the 1930's and 40's, let alone the Napoleonic or Viking etc era's and the likelihood of any invasion of the UK from Europe in current times is highly unlikely.

The biggest and most realistic invasion threat is clearly from Russia, but any such act would I suspect rapidly evolve into WWIII if it hadn't already started. But again why would Russian want to invade the UK? Would anyone trade with them if they took over and controlled the London Money Markets?? I doubt it and there are no other resources that would be of interest to them, other than the desire to squash us - and that doesn't need an invasion, just a few ICBM's!

[bigpaul]

I don't think Russia is even contemplating invading the UK, their main target is traditionally and always has been America. our main threat would come from the Jihadists of ISIS-but most of them already live here they wouldn't have to invade!!

[Devonian]

(16 July 2015, 15:41)bigpaul Wrote: I don't think Russia is even contemplating invading the UK, their main target is traditionally and always has been America. our main threat would come from the Jihadists of ISIS-but most of them already live here they wouldn't have to invade!!

I agree, it was in response to MB's point that we've been invaded multiple times throughout history... and the rest of Europe would most likely also have to have been invaded before the Ruskies land on our shores.

[Scythe13]

Well this seems to have been great, and rather odd at the same time.

Can I just say, this scenario was for fun, and it was imaginary. I do not believe Britain will be invaded, nor that there will be marshall law any time soon.

Imagining different scenarios is a very helpful thing as it brings up other ideas that people may not have thought about previously. With imaginary situations, can people please just play along so that the conversation and pool of ideas is allowed to flow? The idea of "It'll never happen, so end of" is a great way to stop the creative ideas pool.

Oddly, in the more realistic scenario of a house burning down, people are less willing to argue for or against…or even give ideas as to what to do.

[bigpaul]

as a final comment, I think instead of talking about martial law which has never been enforced in the UK, you need to think about "that" bad council estate, the "lumpunts" and the "breeders", the houses with 3 generations who have never worked a day in their lives, the ones with the "its my right" attitude, I have always said its not the event that will kill you its the actions of others(that will).

[Steve]

(17 July 2015, 07:55)bigpaul Wrote: as a final comment, I think instead of talking about martial law which has never been enforced in the UK, you need to think about "that" bad council estate, the "lumpunts" and the "breeders", the houses with 3 generations who have never worked a day in their lives, the ones with the "its my right" attitude, I have always said its not the event that will kill you its the actions of others(that will).

Those people are a tiny proportion of the population, we only think of them because the media continually focus on them in an attempt to give us hate figures and make us feel superior.