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RADIO COMMS
28 June 2012, 10:36,
#1
Exclamation  RADIO COMMS
PLEASEEEEEEEEEE
Are We Going CB or PMR 446 or bloody both

If so which CB system and which PMR 446 system are we going for
AND can we use both.

Is there a rig that does BOTH or even MORE

Can we get hand portable versions that are at least 5Watts and preferably more
Can we interchange aerials or plug it into vehicle mounted aerials.

Guys I'm begging you, can we / you try and move is issue forward we as a community have been pissing around for at least 15 years over survivalist radio use, its high tyime those of you with the skills came to a decision and helped guide us novices forward.
Preppers willingly embrace the benefits of modern technology, but we aint daft enough to rely upon it.
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28 June 2012, 12:07, (This post was last modified: 28 June 2012, 12:22 by Lightspeed.)
#2
RE: RADIO COMMS
Hi NR

I agree with you that we need to get the ball rolling and start building a network with little delay. Can we use this thread you’ve started to try to get some consensus, and then implement?

The Poll to find out what comms equipment resourse we have available to us as a community is so far inconclusive. There are far fewer responses than I had hoped for, with some of them being a wish list responses, not a statement of actual current capability. Thank you to all who have responded but it would be most useful if the whole of our community to a few minutes to respond, that way we’ll be able to try and find a best fit solution.

After discussions on this forum, I’m personally starting to favour CB. I’ll post reasons why on a separate response.
Has anyone else got any strong views that we can discuss?

Arguing the case for CB:

and a question for NR

When initially considering a survivor network I was considerably against CB as a viable tool, but I am now re-evaluating that position. It is a good compromise solution for a structural communications network. My thoughts are
• CB is license free
o We can own and operate compliant equipment immediately without having to declare to authorities, nor break the current laws.
• Range on 4/5w CB is between 5 and 30 miles depending on terrain and antenna set-up
o This is better than most handheld VHF/UHF/PMR equipment, but not as good as Ham gear
• CB equipment is for the most part robust and runs from easily generated 12v power
• CB Equipment is very simple to operate
• CB equipment is fairly easily repairable
o certainly true of older gear, provided you select equipment for which you can still purchase replacement output transistors.
o Personal experience is that I still have 30 year old equipment that remains serviceable.
• Listening around the country, I’ve found that there is very little activity on the CB bands nowadays.
o So we will be relatively free to set up test networks without disturbing existing users
• Ham emergency communications are generally at frequencies well separated from those of CB ( 27 MHz).
o So we won’t be interfering with their activities ( literally)
• CB equipment is still available to purchase new and indeed GBP200 will get you a very capable and robust rig. These can be set up to be pretty much compliant with UK CB specification, but retain the ability to operate at higher power and in SSB mode
o Note that EU has recently permitted use of 12wSSB capable CB. This change has already been embraced by France, Germany and a few other member states, but our own dear government is somewhat dragging its heels. But we can expect a change to the rules here eventually
o 12w SSB will give support 400 to 600 mile skip at certain times and will enhance local comms up to around 30miles
 Yes, it will also support intercontinental communications during sun-spot high activity ( right now). But this is not needed for a UK centric network.
• Second hand CB gear is available on e-bay and at car boot sales for very low money
o Low cost and easy availability is a good thing and a bad thing
o Good that we can afford to purchase duplicate and backup gear
o Bad that the equipment is equally available to idiots who only use it to try and disrupts other peoples genuine activities . Actually view this as a positive as it is a semi-intelligent interference that will test the robustness of our network.

Some Direct question to you NR:
As a seasoned prepper with knowledge and experience developed beyond most of the rest of us on this site, what do you think about using CB both now and in the long term? Do you think it is a viable proposition for the wider prepper community, not just those of us in this group?

To make a viable network (with redundancy) country-wide we’d need around 100 prepper stations to participate. Do you think we could muster that many? Cheers

Lightspeed


Ha, my previous reply on the other thread to your question anbout a versatile radio has evaporated.

Answer: Yes

The Yaesu FT817 is 5w, hand portable, has several ways to fita antennas, and when modded can transmit on Ham, CB, Marine VHF, as well as the frequencies supported by the Chinese handhelsds we've been discussing.

Too good to be true?

Probably

This radio eats batteries and really needs a back-up 12v accumulator, which kind of negates the small size

Also, its low power makes it only marginally effective, especially if used with portable loaded whip antennas. Really it is best on High Frequency with large wire antennas and for these it is probable that you will also need to carry an antenna matching unit.

Also its an all of your eggs in one highly compex little box. If it fails it will be very difficult to get fixed. Even today, most Hams using this gear return the radios to specialised workshops for repair as the level of complexity is somewhat beyond the capabilities of most home workshops.

Alternatives are the Yaesu FT857/FT897 and the Icom IC706mkIIG. These are all mobile units, larger, more powerful (variable 5w to 100w) and somewhat more robust.
72 de

Lightspeed
26-SUKer-17

26-TM-580


STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
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28 June 2012, 13:45, (This post was last modified: 28 June 2012, 15:19 by Nemesis.)
#3
RE: RADIO COMMS
(28 June 2012, 12:07)Lightspeed Wrote: Some Direct question to you NR:
As a seasoned prepper with knowledge and experience developed beyond most of the rest of us on this site, what do you think about using CB both now and in the long term? Do you think it is a viable proposition for the wider prepper community, not just those of us in this group?

To make a viable network (with redundancy) country-wide we’d need around 100 prepper stations to participate. Do you think we could muster that many? Cheers

Lightspeed

Now, rigs would be handy just like our camp cookers, crossbows, and vehicles, all work better if we are well practised and familiar with our kit.
AFTER TSHTF I feel that radio comms is going to be essential in the prepper community especially when we start trading, bartering, cooperating, or just socialiing (in parts of rural Chile and Peru kids living in remote areas are taught their school work by teachers using CBs)

I'm pretty certain that out of 100 preppers with skill or knowledge in the UK 99% of em would see a vital use for a local or regional radio network, maybe half would see a national network as worthwhile in the long term. BUT of those 100 some will want 10 meter Ham, others 27 AM US, other 27 FM UK, others The European network, others with more skills and money will get more powerfil longer reaching ham units.

I think in time overall though most regions will choose one or more local systems but who is using what will probably common knowledge across the whole community, so if say someone like me was on 27FM up here but I wanted to contact someone in central wales I would know they are on 10 meter and contact them by someones ham unit.

This is why I would REALLY like the radiohogs on forums like this to talk to the radio hogs and forum owners on UKP, P2S etc and just try and seek some common ground. A comprimise say we use 27FM UK and PMR 446 and 10 meter, common ground kit will never happen but some commonality in frequencys could prolly be achieved.

I would suggest, grovel, plead, beg for all forums to simply list their forums frequency (s) some place on their forum. I would ask them myself but because I've pissed off so many people I think the other forums would just offer me some advice on sex and travel.

What do thopse Radynet guys use as volunteer emergency radio comms systems ? Shirley those frequenncies would be possibly suitable?

We really need a forum boss and a radio geek to cooperate on this and get some common ground sorted, then I think once a foundation guide has been worked out other preppers will get radios to be part.
Tits the gremlins are back
Preppers willingly embrace the benefits of modern technology, but we aint daft enough to rely upon it.
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28 June 2012, 15:44,
#4
RE: RADIO COMMS
I closed the other one see if we can keep it in this, for now.
Do not look for a sanctuary in anyone except your self    ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ
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28 June 2012, 15:49,
#5
RE: RADIO COMMS
i have no knowledge of any of this and most of what i have just read is beyond my comprehension, of this subject i am completely green, i dont feel i would be of much use to the group.
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28 June 2012, 16:04,
#6
RE: RADIO COMMS
I posted my views as an article and have not changed my mind about it so far. I'm ready to start testing/playing and getting the remainder of the kit.
Skean Dhude
-------------------------------
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
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28 June 2012, 16:32,
#7
RE: RADIO COMMS
Sod it I give up, Radio comms for preppers is no further forward now than it was 10 years ago, no standards , no clear trends, no experts guiding the development. I see the same debate going on over at UKP with no real sucess

CB
PMR
Amatuer 10 meter

Its not worth any more of my time, I'll do without.
Preppers willingly embrace the benefits of modern technology, but we aint daft enough to rely upon it.
Reply
28 June 2012, 16:51,
#8
RE: RADIO COMMS
NR,

Don't give up. Did you read my article?
Skean Dhude
-------------------------------
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
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28 June 2012, 16:55, (This post was last modified: 28 June 2012, 17:20 by NorthernRaider.)
#9
RE: RADIO COMMS
(28 June 2012, 16:51)Skean Dhude Wrote: NR,

Don't give up. Did you read my article?

Probably but I'm so doped up I cannot remember, this subject has been ongoing since I came into survivalism in the late 70s, some of us were happy with 27AM us rigs, others wanted to go with the new 27 FM rigs and the inteligencia wanted to go Amatuer, and sod all has changed.

IIRC you posted about prefering on a personal basis to keep your radio traffic within your family group ?
Its just not fair not not right that folks like Lightspeed should spend bloody hours researching and producing information for us, and so few of the members can be arsed to even have a go and his radio ballot.
Looking at LS's poll so far
PMR 446 has 16% of the vote
CB UK FM has 20% of the vote
CB Multi Mode with SSB has 13% of the vote
HF Amatuer has 13% of the vote
VHF and UHF FM both have 3% of the vote
Marine band has 16%
other has 3%
No transmitter planned has 10% ( that includes me cos I have no idea what I should be getting)

Ok CB UK FM and CB Multimode with SSB are similar, are these available on one radio set?, if so that that gives them 23% of the votes

AND

If PMR 446 which has another 16% of the vote could be found on a radio that does the CB + SSB stuff we could be laughing ( to the mad house)

Is there a bloody radio that has CB UK FM, CB Europe, SSB and PMR 446 that chucks out 5 watts ?

S
The more CB and PMR and Amatuer band web sites I visit and read the more I believe that after TSHTF I will shoot on sight every one of these geeks I can find, They cant agree on anything, they appear to go out of their way to make both information and ewquipment as complicated as bloody possible

Fooking radio waves are all the same they just come in different lengths, and are normally broadcast in AM or FM, WTF can they not put all the common usec frequencies in one god damn bloody radio, if I can get 10,000 ferking songs on my Ipod Nano, then surely these twats can put the 80 UK CB channels, 8 PMR channels, The 40 European CB channels and the 40 yank CB channels, and 10 meter ham in one buggering unit. Are they deliberately trying to play the elitist techno geeks with the rest of society ?????

Preppers willingly embrace the benefits of modern technology, but we aint daft enough to rely upon it.
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28 June 2012, 18:20,
#10
RE: RADIO COMMS
As per Lightspeeds post in that CB equipment is plentiful & cheap AND bearing in mind that the limit may soon be upped to 12 Watts - then it is clear to see that PSHTF these Transmission Wattage limits will not exist anyway. That being the case, why not have an RF burner hooked up for longer distance communications? This is something I came across recently through a friend of mine & in [/align]relation to some 2metre hand helds. I am not up on the techno of radios but I would think it is probable that these RF burners or shall we say output amplifiers would be applicable to CB kit. The amplifiers are connected between the rig & antenna and only need a very rough 12 volt supply to work. I believe they will run with voltages somewhere between 7volts & 15volts or something like that. This is ideal for an expedient supply. The amplifiers are small & portable & cheap to buy if you know the right source..

Using this set up, we could communicate at much higher wattages/longer distances when we need to and at other times we just would not interconnect the RF burner. I do know that care must be taken to keep the antenna away from the head when using the burner as the RF radiation is dangerous in close proximity. Held a few feet away from the head or with a simple loudspeaker or earpiece extension, then it is no problem.

Could this be a simple solution that enables us to use cheap robust kit that can be used for local comms or ramped up with the burner for long distance work?

Like I said, this is not my area of expertise, so it may not be feasible with CB kit but I can't see the problem at the mo. Go on, enlighten me.......
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