PMR446 50+Km range yesterday

[Lightspeed]

Yesterday I tried a little hill topping with teh PMR446.

Managed a 53 Km ( 30 mile) chat with a guy usine simple equipment on another hill.

A station almost 100Km also heard me, but I was not able to chat with him as I was drawing a little more attention than I was comfortable with.

I was using a stock Cobra MT800 by the way.

So distance can be achieved, but you have to climb quite high, as does your recipient.

LS

[Paul]

(29 July 2012, 16:19)Lightspeed Wrote: Yesterday I tried a little hill topping with teh PMR446.

Managed a 53 Km ( 30 mile) chat with a guy usine simple equipment on another hill.

A station almost 100Km also heard me, but I was not able to chat with him as I was drawing a little more attention than I was comfortable with.

I was using a stock Cobra MT800 by the way.

So distance can be achieved, but you have to climb quite high, as does your recipient.

LS

Good Dxing LS, 30 miles is impressive as a (PMR446) Cobra MT800 Band UHF/FM only gives out 1/2 watt (500mW).

As LS says, he was on a hill top and that's something that PMR446 peppers should be careful about.
Round town, these little radios aren't so good. 3-5 km they say is a typical range but not in real life, not reliably anyway.
The problem is down to the very high frequencies they use and the blocking effects of buildings, trees, vehicles, or even loads of people.

SWMBO and me use PMR 446 when shopping.
All down to me wandering off which drives her .
(Wonder why us husbands do that??)

In our local town, the shopping centre is only a mile wide yet we can only reliably work the radios a couple of hundred yards.
Luckily for me that means when she goes into Asda (a traditional steel warehouse design) she can't nag me to join her inside.
That's only 300 FEET!

Looking at that performance as a prepper, if you needed to contact someone over any distance during an emergency it can be a little hit or miss. Even if you upped the power it doesn't really help.
There are alternatives though.
At last I've got something good to say about ham handhelds, 2m models work so if you and the wife both get trained, there's no escape for you guys!
Handheld CB's work well too so NR with his Intek 520 wins a prize too.

[Skean Dhude]

In my plans I intend to use them for very local work, keeping teams together and recce.

Currently use them round the shops but only over 500yrds or so.

[The Local Ned]

OK , playing devils advocate again , so I'll fling a spanner into the works for healthy debate.

Easy tweak PMR446+Mods

This small site gave me an idea - which was why I was looking into a homebase PMR setup , using handheld PMRs for exactly the same use SD envisions.
After having found my old realistic trc walkie-talkie , sadly now defunct ( today ) I am either looking at a new CB setup using a good mobile rig as a basestation , with handheld portables as recce aids , or investing into some UVR5s or inteks and the basestation.

Thoughts please gents ?

---

(29 July 2012, 20:55)The Local Ned Wrote: OK , playing devils advocate again , so I'll fling a spanner into the works for healthy debate.

Easy tweak PMR446+Mods

This small site gave me an idea - which was why I was looking into a homebase PMR setup , using handheld PMRs for exactly the same use SD envisions.
After having found my old realistic trc walkie-talkie , sadly now defunct ( today ) I am either looking at a new CB setup using a good mobile rig as a basestation , with handheld portables as recce aids , or investing into some UVR5s or inteks and the basestation.

Thoughts please gents ?

Also now has me thinking on trying to work out some bergen/backpack mod to mount this type of antenna -
Antenna.
...to work with a UVR5 type handheld ?

[Lightspeed]

TLN

The power mod will give you a LITTLE more range but at the expense of much greater power consumption.

I am starting to think through the viability of running broadband high gain UHF Yagis. 12Db gain from an antenan less than 1 metre long will have very big performance between known fixed points.

The advantage of yagi beams is that you also concentrate receiver focus as well, so noise should be lower too.

Re the Backpack I've a solution that works really well. if you use a alloy framed old school ruck sack its possible to mount a swivle-able truck mittor antenna mount on the frame. This is mounted on the side frame of the rucksack. The antenna is upright when walking, and when the pack is laid down the antenna mount is swivelled 90 degrees so the antenna is again upright. The frame of the rucksack acts as a groundplane.

With one of these antennas, http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/MULTI-RANG...rband.html you will be good for PMR446, UHF, VHF, CB and ham bands down to 80 meters.

I guarantee thatthis works well, as this is my mark 1 manpack configuration that has served me well for a good while now. Photos avail if you need anidea of how it looks.

---

The multi- ranger 9 is also able to be used as a base antenna, so if you get a UV R5 it'll convert that to a base unit too.....

Using an R5 type radio as a base station its worthwhile getting a speaker mike, 12v power converter, and of course am antenna converter. Re antenna converter, be very carful as these units are rather fragile in that area. Also, to remote the antenna you will need very high quality coax designed specifically for UHF, and even then cable runs should be minimal as signal drops off rapidly over long cable rund ( both TX and RX)

[The Local Ned]

Roger that LS.

I was thinking of picking up an old army surplus radio harness - we used them for the clansmen ( 351 ) which was a bit of a lug but manageable.
But as you say - it could easily be done with any 'framed rucksack.

Worked out correctly - there could be space for a small battery in the backpack with power lead running into a backpack sidepocket mounted handheld unit , with a patch lead end fed to the external whip mounted on a pivotable plate.

Throatmic/earpiece could be run through backpack and out an MP3 player type hole , unless a standard handmic is used which can be jacket mounted.

Battery ? motorcycle battery ? - RC type battery ?
Solar panel trickle charge possibility maybe ?

This is if course interchangeable with CB radios / HAM equipment.
Range may still be problematical when geography starts coming into play , but whats new there ?

[Lightspeed]

TLN

Spot on with your thinking.

Have you ben spying on me, coz my setup has both throat mike and waterproof speaker mike! ( there's a nice little Kenwood waterproof mike that I think will fit the 5R.) My mike attaches to the carrying harness though.

Here's a cool pack that I really admire, if it was waterproof it'd be even better. i don't think I'd carry a radio of that value up a mountain without warterproofing! Handset looks like it might be from a Clansman too, don't you think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nph5B3CBvno

Batteries. I've been using 3.3Ah 12v burglar alarm batteries as sold by Maplin for the last five years or so. I generally carry a pair of them with me and they work out just fine.

I'm currently working on a fully waterproof and EMC proof upgrade to my man-pack. This is proving to be something of a money pit, mainly because I keep coming up with new and better ways to kit it out. Hopefully it'lll be ready by end August. Fingers crossed :-)

[Paul]

TLN, Selection of a CB Set
Simple recommendations are always a problem. There is so much to choose from.
Price, quality, functions. The problem comes apparent if you visit http://www.thunderpole.co.uk for instance.

Mobile?
I use a TTI 550 CB set. A multi-national radio, cheap and basic.
There are better, but that's what I use.
It works well for me in the car and at home.

Handheld?
Perhaps Northern Raider can help here with a review of his Intek.
I've only handled one for a short time. Found it good but I was plugged into a car aerial.

[The Local Ned]

@ LS - Agreed mate , I would not want to drop that 857 anywhere around there , I've seen other versions of that radio with an alternative brand on it , I'm sure I have, and theyre still not cheap.
As for the pressel , yeah - it looks very similar to the ones they were bringing out for the new 320 sets when I was leaving.

@ Paul.
Understood mate. As you know my last foray into CB was when I could still fit into 28 waist jeans , any help/info on the best current bang for buck mobile CB is much appreciated .

@ LS.
I know I can rig up a manpack type harness for one of those new small modern CB rigs , power shouldnt be too much of an issue , if it can be incorporated into a decent backpack then its practically a portable unit anyway...

...but tbh if I can tweak the intek PMR basestation to kick out 4 or 5 watts then this would be my primary comms setup, as the range should extend to a more usable extent...5W must have a greater increase in range over 500mw , even with some attenuation factors like natural obstacles it should be a lot better surely ?

As for handhelds - I still think the way to go - for me at least - is PMR446 and the baofeng UV 5R or its various clones.

As a matter of interest I found this on one of the radio enthusiast sites - Transmission 1.
Google Maps Locations of T1 PMR446 Users

[Lightspeed]

TLN going to 5w on PMR446 will put you in illegal operating condition under curent regulations. If you are going that route the I reckon the UV 5R is the cheapest and most flexible way to achieve it as it will give you switchable 1w / 4w power, external antenna capability, as well as very broadband coverage including Ham VHF and UHF, marine VHF and a whole load of MOD owned UHF space( soe be careful how you use it!)

Of course ther will be an imrovement over the Binatones, especially if you get a pair of them. but you should realistically expect a doubling of range or there abouts.

If your CB operatins were from your current location you can compare what you used to achieve to PMR and make yor decision acordingly. As paul wrote the Intek that NR purchased will get you CB in a handheld package that can also connect up to external antennas.....and this will be entirely legal to use as well.

Good luck with your choices.

LS