Geothermal heating

[Lightspeed]

I'm starting to investigate Geothermal heating for the retreat.

Idea is to install Geo therm bore holes and to use PV to power the pumping and heat exchanger. This is great in theory, but I need to understand the relative power requirements to see if its actually viable.

I can't find anything on here about it.

Have any members got any info they can share with me? I'm thinking that maybe, before starting my own research, someone else on here may have already gone down this patha and could share what they've found with me?

If indeed there is no info here, I'll post what I find at a later date.

[BrixhamBadger]

Have you applied for the second/third mortgage that you will need to fund it yet?

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http://www.tnddrilling.co.uk/

[Lightspeed]

(11 November 2012, 09:33)BrixhamBadger Wrote: Have you applied for the second/third mortgage that you will need to fund it yet?

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http://www.tnddrilling.co.uk/

Geothermal is a high cost expense its true, but I look on it as prepping. I invest now and get payback over 20 years or so..... that's like stockpiling food where I pay for it now and will consume it over a long time horizon.

The food I stockpile I know that I will consume over time, so its not a waste of money. My investment gives me food security in uncertain times ahead.

The same logic is in my mind with Geothermal: I invest in a system now that will have an immediate effect on reducing / almost eliminating my heating bill, this year and for decades to come. I know that I will consume energy for heating over time, so its not a waste of money, I will always have a pay back. But most importantly my investment will give me energy security in uncertain times ahead, particularly with the idea of using PV to run the pumps.

Another plus point for Geothermal is that its discreet. Its almost invisible to a casual observer, unlike wind or PV.

Costs I'm seeing at the moment are equivalent to that of a decent motor car. In the current environment I am happy to forgo a new automotive status symbol in order to put my money into stuff that will increase my independence.

Borrowing cash to fund it? Actually this might be a good idea. I borrow and install, on long pay back terms. Come the collapse, the banks aren't going to be business as usual.... how are they going to get their cash back from me......how are they going to know where I am? Sounds like a good way to get my own back in a small way on the system that's f****d us all over.

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BB,

Thanks for the link, by the way.

LS

[NorthernRaider]

(11 November 2012, 09:07)Lightspeed Wrote: I'm starting to investigate Geothermal heating for the retreat.

Idea is to install Geo therm bore holes and to use PV to power the pumping and heat exchanger. This is great in theory, but I need to understand the relative power requirements to see if its actually viable.

I can't find anything on here about it.

Have any members got any info they can share with me? I'm thinking that maybe, before starting my own research, someone else on here may have already gone down this patha and could share what they've found with me?

If indeed there is no info here, I'll post what I find at a later date.

In theory you can obtain Geothermal just about anywhere in the UK, in reality deep drilling costs make it an insane proposition for most folks. that leaves you looking for shallow geothermal pockets to access. IE you have to move to where the geo thermal is near the surface. OR you find a group of people in one community wanting geothermal and you form a coop to fund the drilling. An entire ECO village is being planned for Eastgate in Weardale they reckon there is enough geothermal there to heat an entire community plus a fish farm to grow semi tropical Tilapia.

If you cannot afford Geotherm how about Ground Source Heat pumps which are much cheaper and often more cost effective ?

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LS I think you MAY be confusing Geothermal energy systems with ground source heat systems ???

[Scythe13]

There are 2 basic types of geothermal heating. You can have a bore hole drilled and have heat taken from there, or you can have a snaked coil buried just a few inches or feet (can't remember which) just under the surface of your lawn....covering your whole lawn.

The most amazing part of geothermal technology....it's pretty old! As old as a fridge/freezer. No joke.

Why is the back of a fridge hot, while the inside is cold? The energy (heat is just energy) from inside the fridge is extracted by the coil inside the fridge, and transferred to the coil on the back of the fridge, where the heat is dissipated to the air, which explains why inside your fridge is cool, while the back is hot/warm.

Some of you have probably figured out a fun thing to do. But for those that have not worked it out.....this is how geothermal systems work. The inside of coil of the fridge is the one under the lawn, or down the borehole. While the back of the fridge coil is the one providing your home with under floor heating!!! Technically, it would be possible to recreate the effect using fridge components! But I have no experience in this as such. My experience with this, is mainly theory, until we can get our own place, and I'm allowed to rip up the garden....and fridge!

[Lightspeed]

(12 November 2012, 10:24)Scythe13 Wrote: There are 2 basic types of geothermal heating. You can have a bore hole drilled and have heat taken from there, or you can have a snaked coil buried just a few inches or feet (can't remember which) just under the surface of your lawn....covering your whole lawn.

The most amazing part of geothermal technology....it's pretty old! As old as a fridge/freezer. No joke.

Why is the back of a fridge hot, while the inside is cold? The energy (heat is just energy) from inside the fridge is extracted by the coil inside the fridge, and transferred to the coil on the back of the fridge, where the heat is dissipated to the air, which explains why inside your fridge is cool, while the back is hot/warm.

Some of you have probably figured out a fun thing to do. But for those that have not worked it out.....this is how geothermal systems work. The inside of coil of the fridge is the one under the lawn, or down the borehole. While the back of the fridge coil is the one providing your home with under floor heating!!! Technically, it would be possible to recreate the effect using fridge components! But I have no experience in this as such. My experience with this, is mainly theory, until we can get our own place, and I'm allowed to rip up the garden....and fridge!

Hi S13

Yep that's exactly what I'm looking at .

Geothermal is just heat pumping either from a vertical bore or from under the lawn. The governing factor is how much heat you can harvest at given depths....and of course we want maximum harveting capability in winter months.

Both systems heat pump manufactures quote 3 to 4X heat multiplication factors so 8 c ground temeratures will deliver 24c to 32c usable heat.

The heat exchangers consist of compressor and pump like in a refrigerator. These require power to run. The idea is that you harvest more energy from the ground than you expend in extracting it. Various sources give the sane 3 to 4.5 fold multiplier. To to rin a 6Kw system, electrical power to turn the Heat Pum would be between 2kw and 1.3Kw.

With energy prices rising thisproposition looks more and more interesting.

With a PV systen generating enough winter (15%) prower to rin the heat pump, heating becomes almost self sufficient.

System life of 20 years + is predicted.

[Scythe13]

(12 November 2012, 11:41)Lightspeed Wrote: Hi S13

Yep that's exactly what I'm looking at .

Geothermal is just heat pumping either from a vertical bore or from under the lawn. The governing factor is how much heat you can harvest at given depths....and of course we want maximum harveting capability in winter months.

Both systems heat pump manufactures quote 3 to 4X heat multiplication factors so 8 c ground temeratures will deliver 24c to 32c usable heat.

The heat exchangers consist of compressor and pump like in a refrigerator. These require power to run. The idea is that you harvest more energy from the ground than you expend in extracting it. Various sources give the sane 3 to 4.5 fold multiplier. To to rin a 6Kw system, electrical power to turn the Heat Pum would be between 2kw and 1.3Kw.

With energy prices rising thisproposition looks more and more interesting.

With a PV systen generating enough winter (15%) prower to rin the heat pump, heating becomes almost self sufficient.

System life of 20 years + is predicted.

I've got a friend that uses mirrors to redirect extra sunlight onto his solar panels. They add extra power, at no cost other than....a bit of cleaner once a month, same as you'd need to do to keep your panels running optimally.

I'd try to see whether it would be better to add more panels to your home, or get the underground heating system. Which ever would currently be more financially viable over the next 5 years, is the one I'd go for.

For me, the geothermal stuff, would be used for winter, while the panels would be a year round thing. But I don't really feel the cold, and am happy to have the windows open when the temp drops to about 9 degrees outside. I'm still happy with that.

Consider those in your house, and what they're like. My wife sleeps with heat-holder socks on, wraps herself in the bed covers, and snuggles up to me to use me as a radiator. Personally, I'll be overheating and trying to throw the bed covers off me, and that's when the temp is still pretty high, like 14-15 degrees.

With that in mind, what would benefit you, your family, and your situation more? For me, panels, for the wife, heating.

I'm just playing devils advocate and giving you a different view on the situation.

[Charlie - uk]

A thumbs up for air source heat pumps here. We have one & 1KW 240V input gives 3KW of heat out. Pretty impressive if you don't want your garden dug up or massive boreholes drilled....

[Lightspeed]

(9 October 2013, 20:09)Charlie - uk Wrote: A thumbs up for air source heat pumps here. We have one & 1KW 240V input gives 3KW of heat out. Pretty impressive if you don't want your garden dug up or massive boreholes drilled....

Hi Charlie,

how does the air source heat pump perform when air temperature is zero or less?

[Nix]

Geothermal definitely the future, just look at what Iceland has been up to. Been meaning to dabble in it myself as I love the idea. Unfortunately Buxton is built on bedrock and drilling any deep holes is not on. Last summer had an interesting talk to a farmer who had a system installed on his field campsite to provide hot water and heating for his farmhouse, two cottages and all the shower blocks. Took a few acres of digging about 3 - 4 feet deep and cost a small fortune BUT he's a very happy bunny now that it's done and working. His biggest expense now is running the pump. I suggested powering the pump with either a wind turbine or solar array or both. I'll get an update next time I see him in Whitby.