Under the radar or just don't stick your head up.

[Scythe13]

This could get lengthy, so be warned.

I've been thinking about something NR said about going under the radar and where possible not using credit cards, paying by cash, not buying stuff online, pay as you go phone, or no phone at all, not applying for a FAC or Shotty License, etc.

The thought process is incomplete, which is likely the reason for this thread.

The Greyman is about not standing out feom the crowd. Not getting attention, blending in, and stuff like that. Which makes sense. Same as NR's idea about going below the radar.

But it got me wondering, we're all on the radar already aren't we?

We have bank accounts, postal addresses, IP addresses, we use the phone. We have drivers licenses. We have cars, or houses. The house is either rented or purchased, both of which are registered. We pay council tax. We have jobs or sign on the dole. We have NI numbers, tax codes, polling/voting numbers.

We're pretty much totally tracked already.

But there are some things that will obviously get us noticed and stand out more. Things like a firearm cert, a shotty cert, and the political organisations we subscribe to if any. The items we buy online via card are tracked/recorded. So it makes sense to be ulra cautious of those activities.

What I'm wondering is.......does one take priority?

The idea of being tracked is with us all the time. We can't avoid it.

There are thousands of people with gun licenses and buying ammo regularly.

There are hundreds and thousands of people subscribed to political organisations.

There are billions of online transactions going on every week.

All of these activities are going to be used to profile and cross referrence each other, to get a view of the individual. We all know these things.

Would it be worth cutting up the credit cards or debit cards, not getting a FAC, not buying online, etc, just to feel like we're being less profiled than we already are?

It would make sense to not get a dangerous pets license and a FAC at the same time. However, it would also make perfect sense to get them at the same time. See how this works? Confusing hu?

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to purposefully create your own profile for the authorities to see. A conservative member with a shotgun license that shops at Waitrose...clearly a toff. See where I'm going with this?

In theory, it should be pretty simple to allign yourself in a way to show you're very much in need of certain radar attention.

A dangerous animal owner, has a gun, is a member of the Circus Performers Union...

Explosives license, works in mining.....

I think it should be possible to create a profile for the gov to see that sells you on your merit for the license and places you back below the radar.

It's all theoretical at the moment, but you get what I mean.

[Digger]

Good points.

Kind of in line with your idea, what about this: Government agencies manage to sift through the huge amount of data that all of us generate by exception profiling. That is to say they are looking for things that are different about certain people compared to Joe average, things that differentiate one person from everyone else.

So, by not paying by credit card, not having a bank account, not having a driving license, in fact not having a sheeple profile, might actually be things that get you noticed.

?

[Highlander]

The thing is here, is how far do you go with your prepper lifestyle?

Ok, we are all preppers, but we are [ mostly ] normal people too, we have to live our lives as normal people don't we, otherwise if prepping becomes that all knowing, all consuming thing,...then we simply don't enjoy, and get on with life.

The other point, is that people who get no mail are noticed a lot more than people who do, often the person who becomes the reclusive is talked about because he is reclusive,... he becomes the strange man at the end of the street,.. how many horror films have started with the strange guy who lives behind the closed curtains in the dark house

So,... are we noticed more for the fact that we don't do`normal` things that `normal` people do,... or are we less likely to be noticed if we live just like everyone else

Personally, becoming invisible,..or the grey man, is all about blending in, so I would suggest that we get that license, and tell your neighbor if that's what you would normally do, get the dog license because people will expect it,... do what `normal` people would do.

The only way to blend in is to look like everyone else

[Tarrel]

I think that's partly S13's point. Trying to be invisible is practically a non-starter, so blending in or trying to look like something else is a viable alternative. This works in nature too. For self-defence, many creatures adopt camoflage to blend in with their surroundings, or they try to look like something else, either more or less threatening (eyes on the wings of a butterfly for example). What they don't try to do is disappear altogether.

I share a desire to go off the radar, not because I have anything to hide, but simply because I think I ought to be able to. Funnily enough, it was researching this topic that introduced me to Peak Oil, the coming financial crash and the whole prepping lifestyle. Be careful what you look up on line. You never know where it might lead you!

[bigpaul]

i think we're all on some list somewhere, the only way i could become invisible is to go and be a hermit somewhere and NEVER see anyone AT ALL EVER, it does have it merits, if i was still single i might consider it seriously.

[BeardyMan]

You should see the information Amazon holds on you...
They have a record of everything you've bought or looked at. Great info for profiling.

[Geordie_Rob]

(11 February 2013, 14:01)BeardyMan Wrote: You should see the information Amazon holds on you...
They have a record of everything you've bought or looked at. Great info for profiling.

I can back this up. I looked at mousetraps on google 1 day & one of the links was to an amazon review. A few days later I got an email from amazon offering me various mousetraps. It's worrying if you think too much about it.

[NorthernRaider]

You can opt out of these targets ads, if you look at them there is a little arrow or tick in the corner, this links you to the adverisers server, you can select to opt out of the targetted ads from there.

[Skean Dhude]

Scythe is right in one way and wrong with another. There is a norm that is accepted and people that drop below or above that show up on the radar. However, that isn't the full story and the government is inept. It screws up everything it touches. So they don't really have the time, resources or inclination to go trawling through your records. They rely on the forms themselves to do it. Thus banks have to report large cash transactions. Scrap merchants need id to recieve cars. Businesses need to verify id before employment and get people checked at their cost. The government puts the load onto business as unpaid work.

So if you are that bothered then use that. Don't get a FAC or SGC, don't register as a Ham, don't register with Greenpeace or the Save the Hospital fund, don't sign on line petitions or register for a political party.

Apply for several credit cards and spread the load. Pay cash for the more contraversial stuff and consider buying in small quantities where it is unusual. Be careful who you talk to and never talk politics, it always leads to arguments and people remembering you.

Remember that people are stupid and vindictive even those you know and one day they can turn on you. One word to the authorities and you are on the radar. There are people who delight in screwing up other peoples lives. I have two of those in my street, one a traffic warder, and they are top of my shit list.

This unfortunatly makes it difficult to prep in any groups at all. You never know who is legit and who is not. You have to rely on your instincts and the jails are full of people who trusted others. In fact it seems to me that 99% of the hitmen in this country are undercover coppers.

So stay under the radar and prepare that way. Stay safe.

Here are two questions.
1) What are you preparing for? Our biggest concern is economic collapse at the moment but it isn't the only thing. Economic collapse may make Plod come around and take your registered weapons and ham gear but what else will it do? They don't have the time to analyse your spend across all your accounts to identify you are hoarding or not. They may take the easy kills, FAC, SGC, etc but they might not even have the time for that for any other type of event.
2) How high do you think preppers rate? Plod currently take a a massive haystack and sift it. By the time they include all the false positives, FAC holders, members of political organisations and the million and one others that they have marked as of interest that pile isn't really that much smaller. So they will then use other methods to profile, tried and trusted methods such as who is a member of this organisation and has been actively protesting and so on. That isn't likely to be us.

So, IMO, and it is just that the advantages of a FAC, SGC are that you can practise and use them now and there is no certainty that they will be taken away. If they do you gambled and lost. You can stay of the radar for politics and keep away from riots and stop filling in political forms. Use OPSEC to buy your preps. Use multiply paying methods and watch what you do. Don't make suggestions about killing people on web sites or twitter. Don't even say things that are factually correct but not PC. It doesn't look good and gets you on the more important lists.

As far as making friends on here. You have to make up your own mind but as long as you stay within the law and don't tell them your full preps then you will be fine. Make arrangements with them, meet up. You are not doing anything wrong.

[NorthernRaider]

One slight point SD old chap, just cos a chap or chappese does not have a FAC or SGC does not mean they cannot easily access them for frequent training and practice