Helping other people out

[Grumpy Grandpa]

(22 August 2013, 11:40)NorthernRaider Wrote: I'm saying we are outside the mainstream society and we should avoid interaction where possible, like the Scots group members, every step they take at becoming more independant and self reliant makes the influences and controls of mainstream society have less influence and impact upon them.

NR, personally, if I were able-bodied and knowing what I know now, mostly through the auspices of this site, I might well be doing everything to become more self-sufficient, less dependent. As thing are, I will do all that I can - but I'm not entirely sure where you get the idea from that the 'Scots Group', unless there's another one I'm not aware of, in which case I apologise, is avoiding where possible, interaction with mainstream society (paraphrased). I have not said that it won't be but you attribute aims to the group that are as yet, undecided...

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(21 August 2013, 17:53)Mooski88 Wrote: Yeah I would help them. Tho by sounds of it most people would sooner sit and wait for them to die so they can take their supplies. Or may u would simply shoot them? Help them along? After all if other people are alive arent they just using up supplies that you could use?

Sorry but I would always help out a fellow human being or animal if I can.

Mooski, I'd respectfully suggest that there are few members of this Forum who are the kind of soulless machines you suggest. I'd be interested to know where your statistics are derived from. I've seen no indication in the Forum to suggest that "...most people would sooner sit and wait for them to die... or ... would simply shoot them..." Would you please shed some light on the stats from which you draw your conclusions?

[Mortblanc]

GG, go back and read the whole thread, then the Mass Casualties Incident from which this one derived.

It don't take statistics or deep research to see a trend.

[Grumpy Grandpa]

(23 August 2013, 00:00)Mortblanc Wrote: GG, go back and read the whole thread, then the Mass Casualties Incident from which this one derived.

It don't take statistics or deep research to see a trend.

Okay, did that. Firstly. the Mass Casualties Incident.

I have to say I was impressed with that and having reread it at your suggestion, remain so, because it challenged us to think through such a situation and how we might respond to an horrific medical emergency. The point of it was to make us think; it did that, at least in my case, although such thoughts do revive real incidents and are less than pleasant. I made an attempt at one point to resurrect it, believing that thinking through such a process might be the nearest we can come to the experience of it, in the way of preparation. While what was portrayed was certainly less than perfect as was pointed out at the time, for those who put in the effort to follow it through, I believe it provided what it was intended to, it did for me.

As to Mooskie's assertion (by only post No. 5), while there is divided opinion on what each may or may not do in a given situation, I still see no justification for the assertion that, "...most people would sooner sit and wait for them to die... or ... would simply shoot them..." Even BP admitted at one point he would help...

[NorthernRaider]

GG Scots group or not the more autonimous or self reliant a family / prepper or group becomes the less reliant it becomes on the state and society, thats just a statement of fact, if you feed , clothe yourself, provide your own power, water, sewage food, police yourselves and have your own medical care you are by default severing the links between yourself and a corrupt, immoral, socialist , decaying society society.

[Jonas]

(21 August 2013, 17:19)Bonnox Wrote: Just posted something in the first aid section but thought I would pose something similar here for opinions,
It's regarding a mass casualty event, if you came across strangers who say had had a bus crash and a dozen or so people were injured, would you stop and help ?

Back in my days as a Coast Guard EMT, I had no choice but to stop and help. First, USCG regs said I had to, and second, state law said I had to. Not stopping was prima facia evidence of gross negligence, and I could (and would) have been sued for everything I owned. Now that I am a civilian with an expired license, I have more of a choice, but I still carry a med bag in my car and I will stop and render aid.

But let's follow your scenario a bit further...

Quote:My points/thoughts are
1: using your first aid kit is just that its using your supplies, things you may need but once their gone you may not be able to restock for a long time.

This depends on the "supplies" in question. My knowledge and skills, my stethoscope, BP cuff, oropharyngeal airways, and instruments won't require resupply, unless I leave a hemostat in a patient. Triangular bandages are easily made from any fabric so resupply won't be a huge problem. Sterile compression bandages, on the other hand, will be hard to come by, so I'd probably use whatever is available at the scene to stop the patient's bleeding, like his own shirt.

Quote:2: could you leave someone to die ?

Today, no! I'd do what I could and wait for the ambulance. After SHTF I'll be triaging people in reverse - people who can survive will get help, the ones that need more advanced care than I can provide will be comforted if possible, but I won't expend rare and hard-to-get supplies on them. Will I be "playing God"? Yes! Do I want to? No!

Quote:And what if it was family ? How far would you go knowing it may have serious consequences to your own survival ? Eg: 86 year old Aunty Ethal falls and breaks her hip, now she can't walk, if your on the move it would take two people to carry a stretcher, then there would be food to keep her going for little repayment (everyone has a job post shtf in my view be it washing hunting cooking etc)
Now I'm not advocating Aunty Ethal gets a shovel to the head
But it is something to think about and consider

A "broken hip" (actually a fracture of the femur at the proximal end where the "ball" fits into the pelvic "socket") is only treatable by an experienced orthopaedic surgeon with a fully staffed operating room, anesthesiologist, and a replacement prosthetic "ball" to fit into the hip joint. This is way beyond the capabilities of the majority of MDs, much less us paramedics. What can be done for "Aunty Ethal" is for her leg to be put into a traction splint to reduce the pain, and to be given such pain-killing drugs as are available. The traction splint will not be buried with "Aunty", so there's no loss of resources there, and in lieu of opiate drugs (which will probably be be irreplaceable at that point), whiskey and/or cannabis can be provided to ease her pain. The family would provide good nursing care, preventing bed sores and keeping "Aunty" clean, as much as possible given the conditions. "Aunty Ethal", being bedridden in this situation, would probably succumb to pneumonia in two weeks or so, so no shovel to the head would be required. And no, we wouldn't leave our great aunt lying in the woods where she fell...

[bigpaul]

(22 August 2013, 20:02)Tarrel Wrote: To answer the original question; Yes, of course I would help. What is the point of survival if we can't preserve a bit of humanity?

I don't know about you Tarrel but I originally started on prepper forums to learn how I and mine could survive, not "how do I look after the rest of the human race"! some people out there (non preppers) will just have to start learning how to take responsibility for their own lives! I mean in general not just in an accident or work injury. at one time-not so long ago- it was a mans responsibility to look after his own family, now it seems they expect others to do that job for them,well not me brother!

[NorthernRaider]

I'm not here to save the world and its uncle, I'm here to learn how to care for and protect those under my direct sphere of influence. Before TSHTF of course most of us would chip in and try to help, bandages etc are no problem because they are so easy to make or replace, but not medicines which I have spent years assembling, besides I dont take medicines out and about with me.

After TSHTF I will help my family and other preppers with whom I am familiar, the rest of the world can stick with the end results of their blind faith in the state and the NHS.

[Bonnox]

I'm liking the discussion I can see there is no real 100% solution, everyone has there own opinion, which of course is human nature, I guess it's one of those things that we will never really know until it actually happens

[Midnitemo]

I would help where possible but using the number one first aid rule don't become a casualty yourself, Jonas is spot on.

[The Ragman]

When traveling in a car on a motorway I always carry my full Rugby First Aid kit which is well stocked as I've been able to help in 2 separate pile ups and saved lives and will always offer help.

In every bag I use from my gym bag to my painting kit I have first aid packs and have helped people on multiple times and in multiple ways and have even had the unfortunate event of being sued by a person who I gave chest compressions to for breaking a rib saving his life, but so what, you can't let one bad experience or idiot effect what you do for others, nor can you worry about losing your supplies as I always think...what if it was one of my family or kids.. if they have an accident I would hope that people would act as I would and help them rather than think of themselves, but we are all different and have different opinions, but for me, i don't think i'd be able to look myself in the mirror knowing i'd turned my back on someone whom needed my help especially if it was a serious accident or event.