Minimum Growing Space

[Devonian]

Now I know it will depend upon what you are growing, but what kind of size plot do people feel is the 'minimum' amount of space needed to grow sufficient fruit and veg on an on-going basis to sustain an average active adult, assuming access to eggs and "occasional" fish/meat as well?

Then based on this how many of us have this size of plot multiplied by the numbers in family/group?

The following is US based and I'm sure here in the UK due to climate etc, the areas would probably be bigger, so what do you think?

[MaryN]

Devonian, it would rather depend on what you wanted to eat and what you could grow. Looking at the delightful little patchwork quilt picture you have included in your posting. I can see it is American. To be honest, it's not terribly realistic. The idea of growing wheat and carrying on with a smallholding such as described above would be problematic. Animals need forage - that is hay in winter and various "hard" feeds to put on the appropriate weight and keep them healthy. Where is the hay coming from? Nice idea - it would look lovely as a wall decoration.

[Scythe13]

Can I bring a quick thought into the pot.

There are many permaculture groups, and even more aquaponic people, that are more than able to harness a little over a tennis court to feed a person.

If you're smart about it, I think you would simply adjust the quantities and go for the most abundant food sources from the least plants.

For example, with meat...unless you're going for something like crickets (9 pounds of protein for 10 pounds of food they require) as opposed to beef or pork (1 pound of meat per 10 pounds of food they require), opt to change that for more chickens. Then you have more eggs and chicken breast. Add a cockerel to keep the supply of chickens topped up.

With grains...don't bother! Way too land consuming, and it's simple enough to grow plenty of other higher yielding crops.

I think the guy that created something like a million pounds of food in a little over 3 acres of land, has been posted about a few times before. He uses aquaponics. If a similar system was used, it would be simple enough to scale it, when integrated with vertical gardening, to at least half the amount of area required.

[Devonian]

Hi Mary, yes totally agree and that's the reason for the post to try and get a better UK perspective on this.

I also have concerns about the ability to produce "year round produce" for self sufficiency, even if you are able to store/preserve significant amounts from the summer months and bring in the occasion rabbits/pheasants/fish etc.

At present, like most people I grow some fruit and veg "in the summer months" but it would never produce what is needed to maintain self sufficiency, so I'm trying to get an idea of whether it is realistically possible with the UK climate and if so just how much land would be needed?

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I think I'll pass on the crickets at this time, but point taken

For meat production, chickens have to be the obvious choice for combination of meat/eggs and the ability to leave them scratching around for food (to reduce what is fed to them).

Hydroponics/Aquaponics etc is not something that I've (ever) really given consideration to, maybe need to look into it.

[Scythe13]

I'm playing around with the idea of converting an IBC into an aquaponic system. SD has some good files on that. There are plans on the internet too.

Will need to develop a few more garden preps first though.

[Mortblanc]

The estimates given are absurdly small. They also are dependent in every crop being successful at full production. They are also not including maize in their calculations and are heavy on the wheat, which is much less versatile and robust in a survival setting. These people are mathematicians and not cooks or farmers.

5 eggs per week?

3 servings of pork?

Zero beef ration???

Zero chicken meat ration??

I love that comment "If you wish to add dairy". Butter and cheese are staples of rural calorie intake.

2300 VEGITARIAN calories with low fat and questionable protein intake per day on a working farm?????

2300 calories is the recommendation for sedentary office workers, not people doing intense farm labor.

Following those guidelines one would need to work very hard in order to starve decently

[River Song]

Aquaponics? This was posted before but is well worth a look.

http://www.resiliencematrix.com/aquaponi...te-course/

NB - It takes around 20 seconds to load so have patience friends.

[SecretPrepper]

Think more 3D.
To increase growing space go up as well as flat. You can make grow planters out of PVC/guttering pipe as well as pallets. In fact I made 2 pallet vertical grow beds last week for quite cheap. So I can grow more in less space.

Also you want to think about what plants make lots of food with little space. Pots are good and there are articles on here already to maximise. Produce

[MaryN]

Got to say that my personal jury is still out on aquaponics. I understand the principal, and even quite like the idea, but it seems to raise more questions than it answers.

Does the system you use rely on the temperature of the area you live in, and do you need a particular temperature to keep things moving? Would cold weather be a bit of a blight? The fish that seems to be most popular is tilapia (not a personal fave of mine; it's a bit tasteless and somewhat squishy), and I thought this was a sub-tropical fish- I may be wrong. Would that be affected by temperature changes, and what would it take to keep the whole system at the correct temperature bearing in mind that in a post-SHTF scenario it may not be quite so easy to keep a temperature at a constant level - hell, you could be shivering in a duvet without any warmth. Also, I assume that as you are growing the fish to eat, you need to replace them as you go along. Would this mean you would need to start up a fish-breeding facility as well to replace the stuff you are eating with chips? What if the little beggars are not too keen on reproducing - I could see myself peering irritably into the fish-nursery and mouthing "Breed, you little blighters! Breed!"

It may be just my concept of things, but it all sounds a bit faffy ....

[Devonian]

I've had a cursory look at the Hydroponics/aquaponics and although yes it has the potential to grow more (in the same space) and more quickly, there are a few issues for me:

1. As Mary say's it is a bit faffy! (Monitoring PH, nitrogen, oxygen etc etc)
2. You need a power source
3. You need to keep changing the media
4. You need to be adding nutrients
5. It is only really suitable 'light' leafy veg like spinach and salads and so you would still need conventional plots as well

So its suitability in a future survival situation where power is likely to be an issue means these systems are likely to be severely restricted - or am I missing something?

Also space is not an issue, its knowing how much space is needed.....

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Apparently "The Complete Book of Self-Sufficiency" by John Seymour - has the answers to this - thanks TOF