fighting back

[Midnitemo]

your survivalist friends chrimbo letter is just describing the effects in the main of capitalism...with a dose of over population through poor governance.

[NorthernRaider]

And socialism because it is they who raise taxes the most but for least return.

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I don't think mainstream society will ever work, there are always makers and takers, until we find a system where people pay for what they use and are not expected to subsidise or pay for services they wont use there will always be an imbalance.

[Midnitemo]

er no capitalism because all the thing's we once owned that provided a service for us at a reasonable cost have now been sold off for a pittance to cronies of the then serving government and we now have to buy those services at an inflated price to keep said cronies and assorted other shareholders in dividends...CAPITALISM not socialism.

[bigpaul]

(6 December 2014, 13:09)Sunna Wrote: why not post some threads yourself bp , instead of knocking others , if you have everything covered in your preps why are you here .

picking at posts

I live in devon so nothing will affect me [ how many times have we had to listen to this] put a sock in ....

if your going to post something at least get your facts right Sunna. I cannot do anything about politics/socialism/capitalism/ anarchists/rent a mob/ chavs or other scum, so I don't try. I prep for me and mine, and that's it.

[NorthernRaider]

Midnitemo
er no capitalism because all the thing's we once owned that provided a service for us at a reasonable cost have now been sold off for a pittance to cronies of the then serving government and we now have to buy those services at an inflated price to keep said cronies and assorted other shareholders in dividends...CAPITALISM not socialism.

NUP disagree
Captalism is LOW tax and LOW public spending,socialism is HIGH TAX AND HIGH PUBLIC SPENDING, the biggest bills we get hit with are
INCOME TAX up to 45%
NATIONAL INSURANCE 14%
VAT 20%
FUEL DUTY Variable
PRESCIPTION FEES
HOSPITAL CAR PARK FEES
COUNCIL TAX
FEES TO USE COUNCIL SERVICES like pest control.

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and none of them have anything to do with free market economies.

[Midnitemo]

outsourcing is the major reason costs have gone up in the public sector...contractors come in with a great quote...win the contract then promptly renegotiate or worse still not provide the quality/level of service required or in some laughable cases both....when we owned these facilities they were not for profit and any surplus was ploughed back into new technologies/improvements not now as there are dividends and massive management salaries to be paid.

[bigpaul]

dosent matter if its capitalism or socialism, unless we have a revolution there is bugger all you and I can do about it.we might not like it but unless we are going to join the political class and become like them then its a "fait accompli" , we have to live with the system we have.

[Midnitemo]

I remember when a Mars bar was 3 new pence and was 25% bigger than it was today...shit goes up , its called inflation(driven by greedy capitalists)

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we are just consumers to be targeted and exploited...simple as

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infairness I was talking about the utilities but you have a fair point with british Leyland which was a stupid attempt at keeping a pretty poor business afloat...I don't feel governments should get involved in commercial business just to save jobs...a business should stand or fall on its own merits not be put on a life support machine to slowly necrose....as for the train's , they are bloody expensive but you are paying through the nose to fund dividends and the improvements are down to track/signalling expansions and technological advances in rolling stock and train management most of which is paid by the taxpayer as railtrack,the failed privatised bastard child of BR was riddled with some pretty sharkey contractors/management and less than truthfull train operating companies...the result being HM government stepped in to majorly fund the newborn Network Rail ... why you may ask ... because lots of people in Westminster needed to keep there finger in the train operating company pies....no tracks mean's no train's mean's no dividends.

[Tibbs735]

Some people riot and burn things, some people sit at home panicking with the wife and kids, not knowing what to do, others wait for Jesus to descend with a plate of spaghetti. A tiny minority garden like their lives depend on it... Can't we all agree that decentralised localism is the best "prepper" ideology?

Interesting quote from Caroll Quigly "Capitalism provides very powerful motivations for economic activity because it associates economic motivations so closely with self-interest. But this same feature, which is a source of strength in providing economic motivation through the pursuit of profits, is also a source of weakness owing to the fact that so self-centered a motivation contributes very readily to a loss of economic coordination. Each individual, just because he is so powerfully motivated by self-interest, easily loses sight of the role which his own activities play in the economic system as a whole, and tends to act as if his activities were the whole, with inevitable injury to that whole.

Capitalism, because it seeks profits as its primary goal, is never primarily seeking to achieve prosperity, high production, high consumption, political power, patriotic improvement, or moral uplift. Any of these may be achieved under capitalism, and any (or all) of them may he sacrificed and lost under capitalism, depending on this relationship to the primary goal of capitalist activity—the pursuit of profits. During the nine-hundred-year history of capitalism, it has, at various times, contributed both to the achievement and to the destruction of these other social goals."

[NorthernRaider]

Capitalism according to Churchill is the unequal sharing of wealth, but socialism is only the equal sharing of misery.

another good quote goes something like

Capitalism is a lousy and rotten way to run a society, except for all the other methods.

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Capitalism is definitely not the best way to run a society until compared with all the other alternatives.

I personally like FAIRNESS, not the lefts perverted version when they keep saying that anyone who has made something good for themselves should pay more ...... and more......... and more whilst those who have done little or nothing to better themselves should be given more..... and more...... and more.

My idea of fairness is if you want to use a public service you should pay for it, and if you don't want to use a public service you should not have to pay for it or be forced to contribute to it, That's FAIR.

Those who want a welfare and social security system should be encouraged to have one, paid for by its members, but those who do not wish to be a part should in all fairness be allowed to opt out and not contribute to it.

EG I don't use Libraries, meals on wheels, swimming baths, sports grounds, advice centres, drug addict drop in centres, asylum seekers drop in centres etc etc etc, so why should I be forced to pay for it?

If a bunch of us went out for a meal and say Barney only ate a £2 salad and a 70 pence can of coke, but I had a steak, prawn cocktail and multiple double whiskeys costing £40 under the socialists system we should pay the same amount of the bill, how can that be fair.

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Setting aside ALL of the Pros and Cons of societal systems there is one undeniable fact ALL the richest and most successful economies with the highest standards of living are based on Capitalism, and all those based on various versions of socialism have consistently and utterly failed to create the utopian paradises their advocates promised. None are perfect but Capitalism is the least bad option.