What happens when there is no restoration?

[River Song]

@MaryN - thanks for starting these thoughts going

@CharlesHarris -- Nice bit of kit but as NR says, I'm not sure that HMG has any of these --- assuming that there is any functioning government (I think there will be)

@NR Quote "those who die at home will often become mummified if the seasons are warm and / or the heating is on" --- big if. Quote "It is neither prudent, wise, practical or a good use of time for preppers to try and bury anyone except those close to themselves. " ---- Sorry but don't agree. On the contrary I would suggest that if we are going to rebuild anything at all from what is left, we have to serious consider what to do with mass fatalities.

SO... here's a few things for your library --- to be taken together rather than individually

MSF (Medicins Sans Frontiere) Infection Control

http://www.resiliencematrix.com/MSF_Infe...ontrol.pdf

WHO - Disposal of Bodies

http://www.resiliencematrix.com/who-disp...bodies.pdf

PAHO Management of Dead Bodies in Disaster Situations

http://www.resiliencematrix.com/manageme...bodies.pdf

Case Study in Disposal of Bodies in Far East Setting

http://www.resiliencematrix.com/PLOS_Case_Study.pdf

Hope these help

RS

[NorthernRaider]

Sorry RS I do absolutely disagree with that appraisal, I cannot see where the hell you will get the man power from to clear away the bodies across the country, then if you did the insane risks to their health in a society without an NHS. What fit people you have will be hunting, salvaging, fishing, gardening, looking for coal, wood, oil etc, trying to preserve foods before they go off, generate power etc. I think we can only clear away the deceased in areas we wish to operate in. The LESS people survive the more those people will be needed to source food and energy. The MORE people you have the quicker you are going to run out of food.

Lets agree to disagree

---

UK Policy in War Laws was burning down entire communities to sterilise them, less damaged communities bodies were collected and to be bulldozed into mass pits or council land fills or dumped into the sea, which ever was the LEAST Labour / resource hungry.

[Lightspeed]

NR: Being a little pedantic, I must correct you about your understanding of Easten European conditions. True that there remain huge numbers of classic farmsteads, but the cities' inhabitants have mentality that are at least as reliant as those of large English cities. More and more youngsters are being drawn to the cities and the rural environment is both de-populating and losing knowledge at a rapid rate.

RS: I'm with NR on the burial of bodies point. I feel that bodied of nearest and dearest would get dealt with appropriately. The only other bodies I would tackle would be those found in places that might create health issues for us. For instance bodies contaminating water supplies and those found in properties that were being appropriated.
The problem is manpower.
In the long term on would hope that human remains would be buried and cremated respectfully, But I cannot see it happening as a priority in the early stages.

[NorthernRaider]

LS absolute agree, I should have been clearer on what I meant, from the Czech republic, Hungary, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, a few Baltic states, parts of the former Yugoslavia as seen on TV and on STREET VIEW you can see most smaller rural communities nearly all have thriving veg plots, log stores, critter pens, wood stove chimneys, some have wells, ponys appear to feature a lot still and many of the vehicles appear agricultural (big chunk tyres, good ground clearance, with towbars etc.

One major difference I do believe is notable, is that over here many elderly upon reaching retirement age suddenly appear to become infirm overnight , and move into oap homes (No of course not ALL of the wrinklies) and start waiting for god, where as every tv prog, news article and documentary I see of these rural areas in the east is the youngsters go off to work and the wrinklies head into the garden to tend the critters and vegetables. The eastern Europeans perhapd through economic NEED appear to stay productively active for much longer.

[Lightspeed]

(12 November 2015, 10:00)NorthernRaider Wrote: LS absolute agree, I should have been clearer on what I meant, from the Czech republic, Hungary, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, a few Baltic states, parts of the former Yugoslavia as seen on TV and on STREET VIEW you can see most smaller rural communities nearly all have thriving veg plots, log stores, critter pens, wood stove chimneys, some have wells, ponys appear to feature a lot still and many of the vehicles appear agricultural (big chunk tyres, good ground clearance, with towbars etc.

One major difference I do believe is notable, is that over here many elderly upon reaching retirement age suddenly appear to become infirm overnight , and move into oap homes (No of course not ALL of the wrinklies) and start waiting for god, where as every tv prog, news article and documentary I see of these rural areas in the east is the youngsters go off to work and the wrinklies head into the garden to tend the critters and vegetables. The eastern Europeans perhapd through economic NEED appear to stay productively active for much longer.

That's a good assessment and right on the money.

[NorthernRaider]

LS, that's why I think we won the PR war, the Cold War and the Technology war, but LOST the simple pleasures in life, lost our self reliance, and lost our independence..

[BeardyMan]

(11 November 2015, 19:53)MaryN Wrote: I can perfectly understand survivors making the best use of any remaining and intact structures. What I can't get my head round is, if there is a major incident that reduces civilisation to such a state, what would happen to the millions of people existing now, I mean in terms of actual bodies. Can you imagine disposing of possibly millions of bodiers? What would you do with them? Who would dispose of them? How could millions of people be displaced without someone noticing? If you shunted everyone in, say, Sheffield, out of the city, where could they go? It would be the same everywhere. Doesn't bear thinking about.

Burn the bodies. Better all round. Stops them coming back as zombies too, so I'm told.

[BeardyMan]

If they're fresh then there's also the option of eating them. Depending on how peckish you're feeling at the time...
Sounds like the best plan is to grow a flock of pigs.

[River Song]

Re Burning them - I had thought of bringing a number of bodies into one house/bungalow and setting it alight. The problem is it is damn difficult to get temps to 2000deg necessary.

[Devonian]

I think the dead body disposal issue is being overthought.

In the type of situations being discussed, the bodies will either be placed in mass graves or incinerated in exactly the same way as the government dealt with BSE. Whether this is organised centrally or locally, it'll be the same result.

Which ultimately is the same as was done for the likes of the black death/the plague in medieval times "Bring out your dead...." except rather than a horse and cart, they'll be using tipper lorries, JCB's or even municipal bin lorries!