Is Climate change REAL?, Is it a THREAT?

[NorthernRaider]

Remember 650,000 years is only a brief moment in earths history, IF Global Warming or MANMADE Climate change is real remembering its only been 15 years since those same climatologists told us we were heading for a new ice age, IF it was a REAL threat then surely they must deal with the REAL issues, I see nothing to suggest any government or organisation is actually taking it seriously.

Two simple laws passed globally would save HUNDREDS of millions of tons of CO2 each year, just TWO very simple laws, NO MORE LEISURE FLIGHTS, only essential business flights, and limiting the amount of cars that are allowed on the roads each day in every country.

As for MMR We got our child the Three Single vacines not the MMR because we know inoculation generally is safe, so we went to a private hospital in Darlington to get out little one his shots over a period of weeks. Do you know who we met there? ALL bar 2 of my wifes colleagues from the Hospital she worked at, Consultants, SHOs, Matrons, Nurses, Specialists the whole range of medical professions that my missus has worked with for over 40 years ALL getting single shots for their kids. Just food for thought because these same experts who tell us MMR is safe are those very same experts who said Thalidomide was safe, BSE could not jump species, Salmonella was not in eggs etc WHY because my very own brother now aged 55 who was a perfectly normal happy little boy in childhood, bright, smart, fun, got his Measles jag, developed a temp for a few days and over the following months because severely autistic, he is now going deaf as well as severely disabled, he blanks out for minutes at a time, he has poor motor controls, yet before his measles shot he was a perfectly normal slightly younger version of me.

Please feel free to believe what ever the experts tell you, your life, your right your choice, but forgive us lesser beings who are rather more cynical about EXPERTS, just like those for the last 40 years who have been telling us not to ue lard and cook with veg oil, only to change their minds this year when they finally worked out heated veg oil changes it and makes it much worse than lard !!

This is a good sensible chat and I do respect and appreciate ALL of your replies, I would like to be very clear that I bdlieve ALL of YOUR comments guys hold just as much water as mine, This thread is only MY own opinion nothing else.

[NorthernRaider]

RE: Is Climate change REAL?, Is it a THREAT?
By looking at the ratios of carbon isotopes in atmospheric CO2 it has been proven that the increase is from fossil fuels, not some mystery natural phenomenon. Atmospheric CO2 levels are also rising 200 times faster than at any point in the last 650,000 years.

IIRC 640 - 650,000 years is also the interval since the last Yellowstone super eruption which saw insane levels of CO2 released into the air, a few dozen ice ages later and yet here we still are??

Guys dont get me wrong I know changes are happening to the climate be they natural or manmade, but if they are as bad as the ologists and experts claim then the four items I mentioned surely would be the first order of business at the Climate Change Talks, ergo if they are not then things clearly are not as bad as the doomsayers make out?

[NorthernRaider]

Does every family need two Holidays abroad each year, do many families NEED three or four cars, Why is the laws right across the EU not insisting ALL new houses are built to Scandinivian insulation values, WHY is extra and extranious packaging on foods not banned, why are we not getting glass bottles and jars refilled if things are so darn bad with the world.

Heck even the greens cannot agree the tree huggers in the CPRE objected to every wind farm proposal I was associated with , but never objected until it was pointed out to them that they never objected to any of the 17 new open cast coal mines proposed for the same areas.

Green environmentalism is a good money maker but not much else.

[NorthernRaider]

FYI its minus three here and we have 5 inches of snow that fell since 11am.

[NorthernRaider]

Hey chums by pure coincidence if you have SKY, BT or Freeview the BBC NEWS channel has an absolutely fascinating 1/2 hour REPORTERS SPECIAL of five or six interconnected Climate change articles, From China suddenly going renewables mad to India saying Screw You all we are going to use even more and more coal to US Republicans blocking anti coal activity, Its 130 on BT .

It appears to address many of the issues we are talking about and asking MORE questions as well.

[Steve]

(12 December 2015, 16:20)NorthernRaider Wrote: Remember 650,000 years is only a brief moment in earths history, IF Global Warming or MANMADE Climate change is real remembering its only been 15 years since those same climatologists told us we were heading for a new ice age, IF it was a REAL threat then surely they must deal with the REAL issues, I see nothing to suggest any government or organisation is actually taking it seriously.

Put another way, CO2 levels are rising 200 times faster than at any point since the last global climate disaster.

The new ice age predictions were correct, predictable factors cause it, but it has been overwhelmed by the greenhouse effect. Experts are wondering what will happen when the regular solar minimum ends.

(12 December 2015, 16:20)NorthernRaider Wrote: Two simple laws passed globally would save HUNDREDS of millions of tons of CO2 each year, just TWO very simple laws, NO MORE LEISURE FLIGHTS, only essential business flights, and limiting the amount of cars that are allowed on the roads each day in every country.

There's the problem. We can cut emissions drastically but it means an end to our economies. Emerging countries and powerhouses like China are wondering why they have to cut down on their growth because we in the west have screwed the climate up.

(12 December 2015, 16:20)NorthernRaider Wrote: As for MMR We got our child the Three Single vacines not the MMR because we know inoculation generally is safe, so we went to a private hospital in Darlington to get out little one his shots over a period of weeks. Do you know who we met there? ALL bar 2 of my wifes colleagues from the Hospital she worked at, Consultants, SHOs, Matrons, Nurses, Specialists the whole range of medical professions that my missus has worked with for over 40 years ALL getting single shots for their kids.

You'll find this interesting:
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

(12 December 2015, 16:20)NorthernRaider Wrote: forgive us lesser beings who are rather more cynical about EXPERTS,

You believed an "expert" about the MMR jabs though, and it sounds like you still do, even though he was a fraud and it was a money making scheme which has been completely discredited. Which is my point really, we all tend to believe "experts" if their pronouncements fit our own world view. If someone showed you a report that said socialism causes cancer you'd probably believe it ;-) , likewise you think global warming is an attempt by a socialist state to extract more tax from you. The only way to get a decent expert opinion is to ask a lot of experts - like all the climate scientists for example.

[NorthernRaider]

Steve
The new ice age predictions were correct, predictable factors cause it, but it has been overwhelmed by the greenhouse effect. Experts are wondering what will happen when the regular solar minimum ends.
NR
Yup that looks fascinating Steve they mentioned that on Discovery the other week, its truly fascinating how interconnected everything.

Steve
There's the problem. We can cut emissions drastically but it means an end to our economies. Emerging countries and powerhouses like China are wondering why they have to cut down on their growth because we in the west have screwed the climate up.
NR
What do we want a habitable planet or an economy that grows and grows and grows until we consume everything???


Steve
You'll find this interesting:
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm
NR
Read it and other stuff peertaining to multi bacterial cultures and stuff like the Mercury preservative used at the time by some MMR manufacturers.

Steve
You believed an "expert" about the MMR jabs though, and it sounds like you still do, even though he was a fraud and it was a money making scheme which has been completely discredited.

NR, Ah Y'see thats where you are wrong, My family and others from some Autism support groups have believed that for some kids multiple combined innocs can cause a problem that triggers autism/ clumsy child syndrome etc , and we were saying this WAY back in the 1970s LONG LONG BEFORE Andrew Wakefield even left medical school. We have campaigned solidly since the 1970s for safe single shots given a few weeks apart, its a good fail-safe that does away with any unneccessary extra possible risk, We were just family members without medical support who noticed how our siblings / children changed only AFTER having the Measles jabs. My brothers case started in the mid 1960s LONG before the MMR carry on, Indeed the MMR carry on only re-enforced our belief that most experts cannot be trusted. EG the Experts who said WMD would and could be launched in 45 minutes when they did not exist. Or the Neurologist who told me i would just have to live with violent cluster migraines for the rest of my life until a lay person advised me to make a few dietry changes, and now instead of twice or thrice weekly migraines I only get about 1 every 4 months..

Methinks its YOU good Sir blindly following the experts

[NorthernRaider]

Steve
You'll find this interesting:
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

FYI the decade long medical scandal was NOT caused by Dr Wakefield, it was caused first by the govt and NHS's refusal to offer single jabs on the NHS something that France, Germany etc did offer, The UK govt said MMR or nothing, note also the contract awarding the MMR supply was seen as somewhat dodgy as well.

Then to make a bad situation worse the govt / NHS offered GPs a bonus for every MMR shot given over and above a certain percentage, it saw some court cases over kids being given MMR Against the wishes of the parents.

But luckily for us in this region a cooperative of medics imported the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vacines in from France (I think) in single dose form and they sold every dose they had.

[Devonian]

(12 December 2015, 11:22)NorthernRaider Wrote: Do you believe this Global warming / Climate Change / New ice age theory stuff?

Very simply - NO!

The planet has been through multiple cycles of global warming during it's history, its just natural cycles that will happen regardless of what we do.

There is a seaside village near where I live, half a mile inland you have the old sea cliffs which show that sea levels used to be much higher than they are now, and half a mile out to sea, at low tide you have the fossilised remains of the stumps of an old forest, which show the sea levels at one time where also much lower than they are now.......

[NorthernRaider]

Missed a line of thread somehow it should have read

FYI the decade long medical scandal was NOT caused by Dr Wakefield, it was caused first by the govt and NHS's refusal to offer single jabs on the NHS something that France, Germany etc did offer, The UK govt said MMR or nothing, note also the contract awarding the MMR supply was seen as somewhat dodgy as well. Wakefield simply start the bloody thing off !!

The whole problem could have been resolved in DAYS if the NHS simply did what the Europeans did and let parents CHOOSE, MMR or Single shots.