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Winter Wonderland...oh no
1 October 2016, 07:52,
Winter Wonderland...oh no
Yes you all know, winter is coming (GoT reference for the nerds out there).

So let's have a little fun.

Lovely cold day, you look outside and it's starting to snow nice and early in December. OOOOW!!! So exciting. Hot chocolate by the fire! Good times.

You go about your day as always. Then you pop to the local shops and the power drops out. Crap.

You get home, power still out. After 24 hours, the power is STILL out. Then what? What do you do over the next 24 hours, 1 week, 1 month? Yeah, crap, it's a month later and the weather is totally screwing everything. The attempts to fix the power are so heavily hampered, what do you do?

Please answer in a staged/staggered format for clarity of sequencing, e.g. 24 Hour plan......
1 Week plan.......
1 Month plan......
Over a month plan.......

1 October 2016, 10:52,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
First of all I make myself a cup of chocolate, get everyone together and start them moving now we know what is happening. What I will do is update my supplies by sending them out buying what we can; fuel, food, clothing before others start panic buying.

Snow and ice means people won't be out and about so much and it means when they run out of things they have less potential to attack. Being hungry means less energy and less energy means they can't keep themselves warm. The die off will be much quicker.
Skean Dhude
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
1 October 2016, 14:42,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
SD, one problem. You only really know how bad things are when it's really late in, e.g. a month in.

Day one, it feels like a normal power cut. Nobody has a clue it'll last a long time.
Day two people get uncomfortable and edgy.
Day three people get angry and agitated.
Day 4 people start getting aggressive or in some circles, people start gathering together as a group. Maybe the rebirth of community for some places.

It's easier to respond on the basis that I have said about the power cut lasting more than a day, a week, etc. But put yourself in a position of ignorance. You're day one into the power cut. What do you do? Turns out the power cut has gone on now for 7 days. What's the situation like and what do you do this far into it? What about being 1 month into the power cut? What things are priority? What's going on around you?
Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism - Thomas Jefferson
Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither - Benjamin Franklin
1 October 2016, 17:22,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
Which is why I'm moving on Day 1. If it is just a simple power cut then I have some extra kit. If it isn't I'm finished shopping for life.

On day 2 I'm sorting stuff out, talking to the neighbours and getting on the radio. It all moves on from there depending on what happens each day. I won't be doing anething except securing ourselves over the next few months.
Skean Dhude
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
1 October 2016, 18:20,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
To be honest, I have done the two weeks grid down for the whole community in the snow more than once. I have done the whole winter without grid power for about ten years total in the various homesteads I have built.

The utilities usually work their way through these things very well, especially when it is a regional thing and they can draw resources from nearby. Perhaps France or Spain or one of the EU partners could pitch in and send a few repair trucks?

No, the entire population does not turn cannibalistic or morph into a zombie horde. They hunker down next to their wood burner or fuel oil burner or they go to a public shelter which is heated.

And SD, sending folk out into the storm to do last minute shopping, or trying to get from where they are to where they desperately want to be is what EVERYONE is doing and is the reason for the traffic pileups and shelves with no bread and milk. After the snow starts falling is not the time to start gathering supplies, or traveling about. Bad plan!

Snow storms are usually predicted very well and there have been few times I ever saw a really bad one sneak up on an area. Generally the grocery stores are emptied well before the first flake falls. The last time I was in a grocery before a storm I though the whole town had decided to shop at the same time.

In my area as soon as the flakes start falling the trucks are out to spread salt and as the snow builds up they add the plows to the mixture. Generally by noon of the next day one can get about pretty well even without a snowmobile. Most of our fuel centers have generators, so fuel keeps pumping. The first night and the next morning of the storm is the time to stay put and transition the house from grid comfort to off grid comfort. After the roads are salted and cleared is when to get out and gather whatever the panic shoppers have left behind.

It is doubtful that anyone on this forum has seen or ever will see a month without power due to grid failure or lack of ability to get the grid back up due to snow. I find it amusing to hear people talk about "global warming" from one side of their mouths and prepare for an attack of the ice age from the other side.

If one can not outlast a snow storm for a months time they are not really a prepper, they are just thinking about becoming a prepper.
1 October 2016, 18:55,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
Mostly in the UK we don't get the snow storms the USA gets but we get very high winds and torrential rain which can and does knock out power to thousands of home each year in the UK. Usually the power is out for anything like a couple of hours to a few days; people get by and the PTB sort out stuff like getting fresh water in and even rations when needed.

For me, today? I moved my last boxes from my old home around 04:00 this morning. I'm sitting in a house we had intended to make into a bed and breakfast hotel, surrounded by boxes including lots of food but little furniture (sold/gave away the majority). I need to finish off making this house a 'home' and not a B&B so I can sell before I leave the UK. I'd not starve for weeks here after bringing my food stash with me although what the fluck I'll do with it when I leave is open to debate, maybe find a food bank who will take all the canned and packet food and I still have around 300l of heating oil I could use in stoves and lamps and that has to go because we fitted a full gas heating system (the fuel and tank needs to be removed) before I 'show' the house to potential buyers.

I'm knackered, need a curry, a couple of pints and kip.
1 October 2016, 21:03,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
Leading into the first WEEK i would have used the generator ...although i have fuel, i would replenish it , and all vehicles (they are always FULL ) .....LPG gas anything empty would be replaced (bottle system rack of 4 with another rack of 4 standby ) prolly use oil lamps and candles plenty of food and water. but would be out and about shopping....Week 2 i would imagine sheeple would start kicking off to nothing in the shops nothing is moving ...we are being told on the news to check on our elderly neighbours and give help, there is no signs of the snow letting up....power is down.... i am now moving into lock down.....its now week 3 ...the wood burner is in full use ....heat and cooking .....not venturing out now to dangerous , people knocking on the door for can hear movements of sheeple looking to rob and take....i am now setting up and fixing the ply shutters i have precut......its week 4 on the radio they say last night 22 people were shot looting .....police are no longer on any patrols ....there are some army units ....curfews have been introduced and are very strict, farms are being stripped of livestock i am now setting booby traps....night vision showed a few people moving around last night trying locks on the sheds let a few rounds off over their heads....set up one solar panel to recharge some battery's ....snow and now ice water has been off a week , melting ice and filtering through the Berkey big boy centres are set up but people cannot get to them ....i am now mostly totally reliant on my preps ......although i am well stocked looking to ration certain items just to play safe.......defence now the order of the today say worst in hundred years many people die hospitals close.....some international help has filtered through.....helicopters fly overhead but mostly to bloody late....i am just about of of meds ......but none available for the last 2 weeks to restock..i knew i should have stocked more but i did not.....prepper my arse. its easy to fuck up on the most basic stuff....when you think of food, water ,gas,firewood,fuel, for your kids and grand kids NOTE TO SELF .....MORE MEDS
The ability to laugh at yourself while you learn is a great attribute.
2 October 2016, 05:47,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
SS one of the things we find over here is that during cold winter emergency conditions there is a total and complete halt to any movement outside, especially at night. If it is cold enough to sustain the presence of snow most people will not be moving about either day or night. The kids even get bored with sledding and skiing and stay inside.

The local authorities will even declare an emergency status to keep vehicles off the road and people indoors at night. It is simply too dangerous to be out and if you wreck the emergency response people are placed in danger for your irresponsibility.

I believe you are going a bit overboard with your imaginary scenario since you never experience the conditions you are proposing. I have been in the scenario you originally proposed and it simply does not play out as you are describing.

I once went through a week long grid down situation while teaching at a private boarding school with 400 kids from 10-18. We kept them warm, fed and alive for the week and even continued classes. The only real consequence anyone noticed was the mass pregnancy of almost every teachers' wife on campus along with numerous birthdays being celebrated in unison for several years afterward.
2 October 2016, 15:59,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
Much of rural America is exactly as MB describes. It certainly is here.

Anyone with any sense keeps a 30-day supply of tinned and packaged food which does not require refrigeration. Most homes here have a wood stove for supplemental heat, which may not be their primary heating source, but will suffice if heating oil or LP gas is in short supply, or if AC mains power is lost for a time. During a major storm last year when we received over a metre of snow in 24 hours, with another 1/2 metre a few days later, the National Guard was activated to assist in road clearance and everybody was ploughed out within 3 days.

During snowstorms many of us with 4WD vehicles equipped with ham radio are registered as volunteers for the Medical Reserve Corps and assist in transporting dialysis patients to treatment, or doctors, nurses and hospital support staff to their posts at shift changes. Rural people tend to be more self-reliant and help their neighbors. It is expected and normal.

73 de KE4SKY
"Almost Heaven" West Virginia
2 October 2016, 18:11,
RE: Winter Wonderland...oh no
You are probably correct MB i tend to go overboard (nothing new there then ) but the only thing i can compare S13's scenario too here in the UK was 1963 i think it was or 66 now that was very bad ....but back then WW2 was fresh in the memories of folk stores preserves pickled stuff were in mostly all households along with 112 pounds of flour ...leg of pork , get the picture....people struggled but got by and even helped those in dire need was just done back then MB and no doubt over with you....hell you could leave your front door open ...leave it open today the contents of your home would be on Ebay in half an hour....there's the rub takeouts , meals in a box or plastic pots ...bottles of this and that ...freeze dried processed crap, microwave .....these sheeple have no clue how to cook let alone live off the land and that makes a enormous dangerous difference.....desperate and dangerous equals it's easier to steal your way out for do not have to know that much ....break in wack someone on the head and take what you want...oldies would be favourites..........except if they came to our doors MB....i am sure you would be as understanding as me....back to my post....its the way i see it ...which does in no way mean i am wright or wrong if there is any use in it Take from it ....if not Dump it ... if its not obvious to ALL ...i am no expert in survival or prepping....just an average Bear.
The ability to laugh at yourself while you learn is a great attribute.

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