Excalibur crossbows

[LAC]

As mentioned, the Jandao is a good cheaper alternative, and are actually copies of the Excaliburs but a lot cheaper.

I have a Chase Wind 150lb and the limb has held up for a number of years now with no problem. The Chase Star is a more powerful version.

I like them because they are very accurate, powerful, and easy to maintain and service, and you get a lot for the price. There are dedicated stringing tools for them allowing you to change the strings in minutes. The strings themselves and spare parts are also very cheap compared to other crossbows.

I fire mine at a local range and always use a cocking rope as it reduces the effort by about 50% and also ensures even cocking between the left and right side.
I've never hunted with mine of course as it's not legal in the UK at this time.

Although I don't own one, I've also fired Excaliburs at a range - yes they are better with respect to a smoother trigger action and are slightly better balanced, but imo not worth the huge difference in price. Your money and choice of course in the end though.

[Chief Broom]

Thanks Pete Grey/LAC good input. Any firearms I buy would be used for game but also defence -imagine a scenario where your life is being threatened and your bow breaks! big time regret [before they come through the door] in not spending a couple of hundred quid more. Of course we all have to budget but it could be false economy for something so critical. I know it would be best that your primary weapons [shotgun/rifle etc] should cover these eventualities but it may take me a year to get my licences- ie join shooting club, have somewhere to use it,gun cabinet etc but before that happens I can get a crossbow without any hassle- unless the nanny state introduces more legislation and closes that avenue.....

[Mortblanc]

(15 December 2018, 22:27)Pete Grey Wrote: I have an old Barnet Wildcat crossbow, not used it for years, it’s been relagated as a wall hanger in the loft “den”, it’s been replaced by an Anglo Arms Hornet only 120 lbs, but i do want to put my back out with a high power bow like some prepper (MB knows who). And there’s not much big game to take down around here. I’m thinking of treating the OH to an Armex Blackhawk 99 lbs, also fires 8mm bb’s, useful.

As for air rifles due to the pathetic 12 f/lbs limit here over penetration is not really a problem, with pigeons 22 pellets can bounce off the feathers, while 177s get through, as for fitting more powerful springs whose to say was the gun upto the 12 f/lbs in the first place ?.

Aaahaa the great tomato slayer. I had not thought about him in some time!

Pete, I have been using pellet rifles for most of my life and I guarantee that if .22 pellets are bouncing off pigeon feathers they are not traveling at even half the 12 pound limit, or the range was truly excessive.

I know the trend today is long range target shooting with pellet rifles but the 12 pound guns are best used on game inside the 25 meter limit and 10 meters is better. It is only out there at the long ranges where the trajectory of the slightly faster .177 really makes any difference in accuracy mostly due to easier range estimation. If you are inside 25 yards hold over or under is negligible. Less than an inch high or low from muzzle to 25 meters.

It starts dropping rapidly after 25 and goes wild past 35.

And what is that difference in speed between .177 and .22 ??? Well when you are near the 12 pound limits it is going to be about 800 fps for an 8 grain .177 pellet and 700 fps for an 11 grain .22 pellet.

I have killed many rabbits, squirrels and birds with 11 grain .22 pellets traveling at 550 fps. That is just a hair over 7 lbs. I did not know it was 12 lbs energy, or the velocity either for that matter. I just knew my multi-pump Crossman was a whole lot more powerful than my old Daisy!

Most of those were not head shots, but solid body shots to the vitals. I did not know a pellet gun required head shots when I was a kid, and apparently no one told the critters either so they died in ignorance.

And you are correct almost all the manufacturers insure that their products are well under the 12 lb limit. No manufacturer is going to put their power levels consistently up there at the 11.97 level for fear of a bad chronograph reading or machine malfunction. What you will get at best is a speed consistently 50 fps slower than the legal limit. Most will not do that much.

Over here there is an extreme search for top pellet speed to the complete destruction of accuracy, as well as very loud report due to many of the air guns breaking the sound barrier and giving a crack as loud as a .22 rim fire. The speed race has some makers advertising velocities of 1400-1600 fps with .177 pellets and over 1000fps in .22. Some of the springer rifles in use over here have 50-60 pounds cocking effort.

A person could throw his back out and kill all his tomato plants!

Takes all the fun right out of it!

[Steve]

Forget about "stopping power" with a UK spec air rifle - all you need to consider is field accuracy - how easy is it to shoot a hole through the animals brain ?

Personally, I find a quality 0.177 easier to use.

[Pete Grey]

(16 December 2018, 11:03)Mortblanc Wrote:

(15 December 2018, 22:27)Pete Grey Wrote: I have an old Barnet Wildcat crossbow, not used it for years, it’s been relagated as a wall hanger in the loft “den”, it’s been replaced by an Anglo Arms Hornet only 120 lbs, but i do want to put my back out with a high power bow like some prepper (MB knows who). And there’s not much big game to take down around here. I’m thinking of treating the OH to an Armex Blackhawk 99 lbs, also fires 8mm bb’s, useful.

As for air rifles due to the pathetic 12 f/lbs limit here over penetration is not really a problem, with pigeons 22 pellets can bounce off the feathers, while 177s get through, as for fitting more powerful springs whose to say was the gun upto the 12 f/lbs in the first place ?.

Aaahaa the great tomato slayer. I had not thought about him in some time!

Pete, I have been using pellet rifles for most of my life and I guarantee that if .22 pellets are bouncing off pigeon feathers they are not traveling at even half the 12 pound limit, or the range was truly excessive.

I know the trend today is long range target shooting with pellet rifles but the 12 pound guns are best used on game inside the 25 meter limit and 10 meters is better. It is only out there at the long ranges where the trajectory of the slightly faster .177 really makes any difference in accuracy mostly due to easier range estimation. If you are inside 25 yards hold over or under is negligible. Less than an inch high or low from muzzle to 25 meters.

It starts dropping rapidly after 25 and goes wild past 35.

And what is that difference in speed between .177 and .22 ??? Well when you are near the 12 pound limits it is going to be about 800 fps for an 8 grain .177 pellet and 700 fps for an 11 grain .22 pellet.

I have killed many rabbits, squirrels and birds with 11 grain .22 pellets traveling at 550 fps. That is just a hair over 7 lbs. I did not know it was 12 lbs energy, or the velocity either for that matter. I just knew my multi-pump Crossman was a whole lot more powerful than my old Daisy!

Most of those were not head shots, but solid body shots to the vitals. I did not know a pellet gun required head shots when I was a kid, and apparently no one told the critters either so they died in ignorance.

And you are correct almost all the manufacturers insure that their products are well under the 12 lb limit. No manufacturer is going to put their power levels consistently up there at the 11.97 level for fear of a bad chronograph reading or machine malfunction. What you will get at best is a speed consistently 50 fps slower than the legal limit. Most will not do that much.

Over here there is an extreme search for top pellet speed to the complete destruction of accuracy, as well as very loud report due to many of the air guns breaking the sound barrier and giving a crack as loud as a .22 rim fire. The speed race has some makers advertising velocities of 1400-1600 fps with .177 pellets and over 1000fps in .22. Some of the springer rifles in use over here have 50-60 pounds cocking effort.

A person could throw his back out and kill all his tomato plants!

Takes all the fun right out of it!

On doing some research it turns out that my bsa meteor was designed to produce just 7.5 to 8.5 lbs when new. It got to be at least 30 years old so it must be really down on power.

So do i fit a new stronger spring (like a titan) and risk damaging the gun and possibly braking the law ?.

Or strip, check all parts (replacing standard spring if it’s damaged) and then lubricate as i reassemble to original specification and hope stopping power increases to designed poundage ?.

Or i could do both, overhaul the gun but get a stronger spring to fit for when we are WROL.

It looks like i have an interesting project coming up.

[Talon]

The Meteor really isn't a full power rifle Pete.It can get near with work but you'd be pushing the rifle and it wouldn't be pleasant . I'd avoid Titan springs . They're always too long and it will need cutting down . Older springs were much softer sprung , the Titans made stiffer and will be stiffer still when cut.And putting a larger Spring in the meteor will most likely result in a loss of power ,that's if it will even cock . It'll also put undue stress on the cocking mechanism and the trigger .
You'd be best just stripping , degreasing and relubing. You could also try and source an original spring and piston seal . That might get you up near 10.
My advice would be first get a chrono and check what the rifles putting out . It might surprise you, If you want something that'll comfortably do 12 then I'd suggest something a little more efficient like a hw99 or 95 , There's plenty other makes that'll be fine ,but for quality I'd go with Weihrauch.
I wouldn't personally touch a modern BSA Turkish Spring rifle .If you wanted to stay with BSA there's lots of Birmingham made Supersports still out there for not a lot of money .

[Mortblanc]

BSA is now owned by Gamo, out of Spain. Gamo ow makes some BSA guns while BSA now makes some Gamo guns. You never know what you are going to get until you open the package and find big plastic fiber optic sights!

I am agreed with Talon on the HW products being the best product for the money. Until you actually shoot one of the German made HW products with the record trigger you do not know what a good trigger is.

They are also offered in all levels of power with the same quality features.

I bought my HW30 specifically to have a high quality low power rifle for back garden shooting.

I do believe that if I were to step up in power I would go with the HW57 or 97 for the fixed barrel, side cocking feature. I doubt that I ever will. the high power springers have little appeal to me. I have cut down the springs on a couple which I already have.

If you wish to tune up one of the old BSA products there are several makers that offer spring kits that duplicate factory performance. New springs, new seal, and some good silicone grease will put an old gun back to good at little real expense.

[Talon]

My apologies Pete and Mort.I was getting BSA mixed up with Webley (it's early) ,BSA are indeed now Gamo,I'd still steer clear of them though and go Weihrauch.

[Pete Grey]

(17 December 2018, 09:13)Mortblanc Wrote: BSA is now owned by Gamo, out of Spain. Gamo ow makes some BSA guns while BSA now makes some Gamo guns. You never know what you are going to get until you open the package and find big plastic fiber optic sights!

I am agreed with Talon on the HW products being the best product for the money. Until you actually shoot one of the German made HW products with the record trigger you do not know what a good trigger is.

They are also offered in all levels of power with the same quality features.

I bought my HW30 specifically to have a high quality low power rifle for back garden shooting.

I do believe that if I were to step up in power I would go with the HW57 or 97 for the fixed barrel, side cocking feature. I doubt that I ever will. the high power springers have little appeal to me. I have cut down the springs on a couple which I already have.

If you wish to tune up one of the old BSA products there are several makers that offer spring kits that duplicate factory performance. New springs, new seal, and some good silicone grease will put an old gun back to good at little real expense.

Thanks MB your advice is the way i’ll go.

With your indoor airgun range a lower power spring gun is ideal, and also for outdoor plinking.

It can be hard work breaking and loading a high power weapon for an hour or so.

Shooting is a pleasure, why make it hard work ?.

After all for hunting small game you’ve got 22LR and 30.06 for large game (lucky you).

[Midnitemo]

My first air rifle was a BSA meteor bought from a mail order catalogue for about £1.50 a week back in the late 70's paid for by my paper round , my friend bought a Relum at the same time and his was noticeably more powerful than mine.