compact and very accurate sniper

[Paul]

You know every time I read a thread on "sniper" rifles I have to chuckle.

Apart from getting a licence which takes ages and can be refused AND REVOKED on a whim, let alone the "radar" bit that a lot of us realise is a major tilt on your freedoms.
I also chuckle about where are you going to learn to shoot one, and how you are going to afford to feed it?

After all it's not just ammo. Range fees, club fees, coaching, security costs i.e. gun safes, maintenance, and insurance for both the gun and public liability (Which only fools do without)?

I wonder if you also appreciate just how quickly you'll go through a match accuracy 1/2 MOA barrel? You know, number of rounds?

Being generous I'll quote you 3000 rounds. Any long range target shooter will tell you I'm being EXTREMELY generous there!

It'll be VERY a sloppy fit for your lead (Pb) a long time before you put that number through the gun I assure you. You'll be looking for a new barrel within a year if you're really keen.
The cost of that fitted by a GOOD gunsmith? About the same as a new rifle.

Glad you're rich enough to afford all that.

Besides that:-
Are you happy for random checks by plod to happen at any time?
What you going to do if they pull everyones licence again. . . . suddenly . . . . . and take your toy away like they did our fullbore pistols?

Being a person of interest i.e. on the radar, a simple traffic violation, being cautioned, found drunk, wife beating, taking drugs, accused of theft, taking part in a civil disturbance, or your doctor casts doubt on your mental capacity will all see your toy removed.

What if someone says you threatened them with your toy or popped a cap off in the garden? Doesn't have to be true, if they fill in a police report, once again it's bye bye toys until proven wrong.
So you better not upset your neighbours, friends, or your love interest.

As for regularly popping people at a 1000 meters when TSHF? Dream on.
More like 50 meters as an average in an urban firefight.
Even SWAT acknowledge the average range for them is sub 50 yards.

Two loads of #1 or #2 buckshot flying towards you is a damn sight more effective than a single .223 or bigger at those ranges.

[James Jackson]

as i cannot get a gun in uk that will be of any use that i couldnt do with a bow/crossbow for the time being i see it as a nice topic, but off not so much use in general

[Timelord]

You must be joking if you think that a crossbow or other bow will do the same effective job as a gun!!

Whilst getting a gun licence is not a 2minute affair and yes it comes with its consequences and also the possibility of the licence being revoked, that does not detract from the very useful exposure to firearms in general, the practice, speed & accuracy & other shooting skills, experience of maintenance, clearing a blockage, disassembly and reassembly, possible repair skills for some. Experience of different ammunition & reliability, ballistics, shot pattern, range & efficiency. Experience of different firearms & calibres. Reloading. *Expedient applications!! & relevant study*. Safety & awareness. + more.

All this is hard to come by without hands on experience and for most civvies, that is rarely without a licence.

So even if the authorities pull licences, that does not mean you have lost out - actually, as a prepper we should know better than to be caught out like that :-))

Beware, red alert, red alert, by posting on sites such as these, you are putting yourself on the radar as far more of a risk than someone already passed by the authorities to hold a licence!!

---

A carbine is denoted by having a shorter barrel than a true rifle version. Modern personal "assault rifles" are actually auto or semi auto carbines. The previous generation, etc SLR's & Lee Enfields were Rifles. A sniper rifle is a rifle that is set up or tricked out for superior accuracy intended for the role of a sniper. A carbine is not a sniper rifle. The barrel is not long enough for the level of superior accuracy when compared to that of an equivalent tech sniper rifle. A carbine that is improved for accuracy is a superior accurate carbine but is still not a rifle. It could be called a sniper carbine I guess.

You can buy an MP5 semi auto in .22LR calibre. There are a few different makes. It would look a bit dodgy with the law for your first gun though. lol.

[Hrusai]

cheers for that TL, i totally agree, short of joining the military or police i wont have any chances to get training with firearms, unless i take it up as hunting or for sport and get familiarised with it, just like how a prepper should be versatile in riding bikes, horses, driving cars, motorbikes and all manner of other vehicles, a prepper should also be well versed with different forms of defence and hunting tools, like firearms, crossbows, bows, spears, knives and blowguns....the prepper should be a jack of all trades.

as for the rest of your arguments your either wrong or just stating the obvious, mostly wrong though.

TL; sorry dude same length barrel as a full length sniper bull pup design makes it more compact, i can put a 26 inch barrel on that baby and it will have as good if not better accuracy than a full length sniper withe the same size barrel, but it'll also be a foot shorter although i will admit this one does have a small 16inch barrel on it, but the full size one has a full barrel

i know you can buy .22 mp5's but i'd hardly call it an mp5 xD i mean sure it looks the same, but .22 calibre and semi auto, thats just defeating the object of an mp5!

[Timelord]

Thankyou for that Hrusai >>> "as for the rest of your arguments your either wrong or just stating the obvious, mostly wrong though."

Ok, I will try one more time - in laymans terms...
The point is - the one in the picture - is as I said - a carbine - due to its barrel length. If you put a full length barrel on it, then yes, it will be classed as a rifle! It is not about what it looks like or what the manufacturer calls it, it is about the barrel length. A carbine is a shortened barrel version of a rifle - just like the one in the picture. I hope that explains it clearly enough


"TL; sorry dude same length barrel as a full length sniper">>>
This part of the sentence is incorrect...
" bull pup design makes it more compact,">>>
this part of the sentence is incorrect. Sniper rifles now also use bull pup designs. is this phrase straight from the catalogue?
" i can put a 26 inch barrel on that baby and it will have as good if not better accuracy than a full length sniper with the same size barrel,">>>
this part of the sentence is incorrect - 1) a 26 inch barrel is not long enough for a specialist sniper rifle 2) If the barrel was replaced with one the same size as a full length sniper one on a dedicated sniper rifle - then how would that make it more accurate than the sniper rifle?
"but it'll also be a foot shorter " >>>
This sentence is not accurate, as per reasons above for the bull pup design
"although i will admit this one does have a small 16inch barrel on it, but the full size one has a full barrel ">>>
This sentence indicates that the gun shown in the picture is actually fitted with a carbine barrel, thereby in that configuration, classifying it as a carbine and not a sniper rifle - Exactly as I identified originally!

It is odd how none of this complete paragraph has any real knowledge behind it. It is very similar to phraseology found in product advertising.


The MP5 is a code designation for the gun. The phrase Machine Pistol 5 does not strictly imply any calibre or effectiveness. The MP5 is available also in .22LR and is produced by a few different manufacturers in this calibre.

", but .22 calibre and semi auto, thats just defeating the object of an mp5!"

This is also an interesting perception. Just what do you think an MP5 is?? It is a big machine pistol - for close range work that requires burst accuracy at close range or a lot of lead in the air at close range. Unless you are considering that in a prep situation you would be facing armoured opponents, then the .22LR is quite an efficient round. The magazines hold up to 30 rounds I believe and the ammo is lightweight, small and easily carried. It is also cheap and easy to stockpile. A useful round for hunting too and with simple silencer, the noise is v.small. The .22LR has a lot going for it in a survival scenario and is often a hotly debated subject.

[Timelord]

Have a look at this for a useful survival rifle in .22LR

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale...3130513004

[Paul]

Nice little gun TL.
22Lr is a useful round as you say.
In the UK the next best pest control round is the .17 HMR
Ballistically there is quite a difference.
.17 HMR @ muzzle = 250 ft-lbs -- 100 yards = 140 ft-lbs
.22 LR @ muzzle = 155 ft-lbs -- 50 yards = 122 ft-lbs

Just for a interest i'll add these:
Crossbows,(350gr bolt)
High Velocity; 350 fps 98 ft lbs 44 Yards - Effective Range. (Compound Barnett Predator)
Med. Velocity; 300 fps 70 ft lbs 37 Yards - Effective Range. (Compound Barnett Jackal)
Low Velocity; 250 fps 48 ft lbs 30 Yards - Effective Range. (150 lb recurve Barnett Panzer)
Very Low Vel; 200 fps 31 ft lbs 26 Yards - Effective Range. (150 lb. recurve cheap clone)

Not a patch power wise but you don't need a licence for them (yet).

[Hrusai]

well i really cant be bothered to keep arguing about this rifle anymore, we're never going to agree

and that first phrase wasnt even aimed at you TL

anyway, while that ar-7 is an interesting and compact design it does have some major drawbacks, being that it frequently jams, has a dodgy magazine release and a few other drawbacks, i researched it alot a while ago, it seemed like a great idea, but after looking around i bucked my ideas up

i'd much rather have a ruger 10/22 breakdown personally http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Takedown/models.html

whilst less compact its got a far better track record of reliability and accuracy.

and i do agree .22 is an excellent and useful round, not to mention exceptionally common and the easiest to get a fac for.

crossbows are also a consideration, although most lack the ability to be packed down to a reasonable size, and im more of a rifle/bow kinda guy, at the end of the day its all down to personal preference.

[cryingfreeman]

Move to Northern Ireland where all the respectable people are packing Glocks and other handguns. You can own better shotguns here than on the mainland too. No faffing around with air rifles! And if you don't want the plod calling round to inspect, I'm sure someone somewhere could find you something delicious "off-market"...

[The Local Ned]

I learned to fire shotguns during my teens , over and unders and side by sides, alongside the same person that I ran around on motorbikes with and was on the CB with.

I fired my first rifle - in the army cadets.
It was an old converted lee-enfield , dont ask the calibre - I cant remember.

I started Army training using the SLR , a good infantrymans weapon...
I finished my training using the SA80 , the first kinda shitty version , not the newer 'fixed' version.

I learned weapon handling using a .22 converted SA80 , which I can assure you - is deadly enough , never mind the .556 version.

I also fired some other weapons , including sniper rifles.

For anyone buying a weapon off the shelf - so to speak and expecting to get 'good groupings' after a month or two is very optimistic indeed. I had platoon mates that were sent to the all arms school to learn how to use sniper rifles effectively , they were trained soldiers and it still took them over a month on a course just to see if they qualified for a marksman badge.

It is not easy to do. Believe me.

The weapon shown looks more like a carbine , but I am certain it is indeed a long range rifle probably used to snipe...as it is a bullpup , it has certain advantages and disadvantages too , personally I'd rather go for a long barrel for a sniping weapon , being a compact sniper weapon offers no tactical advantage - the SA80 was brought into service with the army becoming more mechanised , full size SLRs arent much cop when you're jumping out of a 432 , so bullpup type made sense.