Survival Radio Musts, Shoulds, Coulds

[Skean Dhude]

(31 July 2012, 11:31)Lightspeed Wrote: NR,

400 channels are great, but that just makes 399 places to search to find anyone. KISS and stick to regular channels and use the exotic ones for semi private coms.

or 400 places to hide if you are so inclined. imo it is worth considering. You don't have to use them.

[NorthernRaider]

I get the feeling we all have slightly different ideas about what we want radio comms for, in my own case i want hand held radios capable of a minimum of 10 miles range for keeping contact with my family during the initial part of the collapse ( esp if the cellphone system fails or is turned off) , but after TSHTF my primary role will be for patroling my AOO, I will need to go scavenging and salvaging for materials and supplies, I will need to patrol for security issues to make sure herds of starving sheeple are not heading towards my home, also so I can provide real time feed back to the rest of my family about what any herds of sheeple consist of so we can plan accordingly. Also if other preppers with whom I have a trusting relationship are driven into my AOO I can radio them from secure spots a long way from my retreat to meet them some dafe place to be able to help them. And I will need comms tween working parties out and about doing everything from rubbish disposal, animal husbandy, gardening duties. So competant two way radios that are primarily HAND PORTABLE, but can be set up in vehicles or as base stations will be my main need.

CB 27 FM and AM is one good option, 4 watts normally but at least 10 watt and longer better aerials after TSHF, OR according to August 2012 copy of Radio User and on CB radio forums, tarted up PMR 446 is becoming an unofficial CB network in many European countrys, but at 4 or 5 watt or MORE, not .5watt

I know about triangulation so broadcasts from my home are going to be very few and very brief, prolly just short pre arranged code words IE "Alas Babylon"

I would suggest to my colleagues on SUK that though base station comms will be of great importance to us overall, they need in the short to medium term avoid broadcasting from the physical locations of their homes as nasty people could be triangulating where you are.?

[Martin200261]

(2 August 2012, 09:45)NorthernRaider Wrote: I get the feeling we all have slightly different ideas about what we want radio comms for, in my own case i want hand held radios capable of a minimum of 10 miles range for keeping contact with my family during the initial part of the collapse ( esp if the cellphone system fails or is turned off) , but after TSHTF my primary role will be for patroling my AOO, I will need to go scavenging and salvaging for materials and supplies, I will need to patrol for security issues to make sure herds of starving sheeple are not heading towards my home, also so I can provide real time feed back to the rest of my family about what any herds of sheeple consist of so we can plan accordingly. Also if other preppers with whom I have a trusting relationship are driven into my AOO I can radio them from secure spots a long way from my retreat to meet them some dafe place to be able to help them. And I will need comms tween working parties out and about doing everything from rubbish disposal, animal husbandy, gardening duties. So competant two way radios that are primarily HAND PORTABLE, but can be set up in vehicles or as base stations will be my main need.

CB 27 FM and AM is one good option, 4 watts normally but at least 10 watt and longer better aerials after TSHF, OR according to August 2012 copy of Radio User and on CB radio forums, tarted up PMR 446 is becoming an unofficial CB network in many European countrys, but at 4 or 5 watt or MORE, not .5watt

I know about triangulation so broadcasts from my home are going to be very few and very brief, prolly just short pre arranged code words IE "Alas Babylon"

I would suggest to my colleagues on SUK that though base station comms will be of great importance to us overall, they need in the short to medium term avoid broadcasting from the physical locations of their homes as nasty people could be triangulating where you are.?

NR, sounds like you've got a good handle on your radio needs and know which direction you are going

We still need to decide on a calling channel we would all use if we were in your AOO, do we use the standard ch19 or something else? I think this is one of the areas we are all trying to sort out. Do we want to use the same calling channels as everyone else or do we hope to operate hidden from the general mass?

[NorthernRaider]

Martin why change whats not broken, everyone else uses CH 19 so it makes sense we use the same, for example after TSHTF you could be calling on CH 19 and a none prepper who is online hears you but is in a good position to help you replies?, not all sheeple are hostile to use, indeed many hobby CBers and Hams would probably try and help a prepper if they could.

The only true bone of contention I cannot overcome no matter after how much reassurance I get from Paul, LS and SD if the radio output, I feel most strongly that ten watt hand helds ( maybe as low as 7 watt at a push) is what we will need if we intend to adopt normal sorts of opsec on securing our homes, We will need good RX and TX to at least 15 miles to get the best effect.

[Paul]

Two minor points if I may NR.

Power:-
Doubling, tripling, multiplying your power by 100 may mean you can speak for 15 or more miles.
Problem is will the other guy running a standard setup have enough power to speak back to you?
Range limitation is not always power, it's generally just location and your aerial, on both sides of the communication.

Batteries:-
You've got a good handheld in the shape of your Intek 520.
I'll bet you've got the good batteries too. 1500mAH or the biggie ones 2100 mAH?

6 AA batteries. That's 7.2 volts or 9 volts in total.
At 4 watts, that's around 1/2 amp every time you hit the transmit key.
1500mAH batteries, 3 hours tops continious talk time.
2100maH batteries 4 hours tops worth of nattering.

Lets up your handheld to 10 watts.
Thats about 1 to 1 1/2 amps every time you hit the transmit key.
1500mAH batteries, approx 60 - 90 mins talk time.
2100 maH batteries, approx 66 - 94 mins talk time.

Your really caning those little batteries let alone your rig by 'running hot'.
They'd also take 10 - 14 hours to recharge.
A very long down time.

[NorthernRaider]

I dont use rechargable batteries in high drain applances, Radios and Tactical flashlights only get Duracell ultra or Energizer lithiums, rechargables are only any good for low drain applications in a INITIAL survival situation. I also rotate my stocks of batteries. some preppers also use larger Dry cell burglar alarm batteries via cigarette lighter sockets as semi portable power supplies. They do recharge them of mini PV panels. I can see a need for rechargables in time, but as the better brands of Alkaline or Lithium batteries often are good for up to ten years storage I think the need for nicads and nimhs will be some way off.

Proper survival or mil or professional radio protocols should mean TXing is only for brief messages not chit chat. 60 to 90 minutes talk time should be MORE than enough for a 24 hour patrol, and 6 spare fresh batteries only take up a tiny amount of space.

---

Tis better to wear out a set of batteries getting a security warning home whilst the bad guys are still 20 miles away, than to safe battery power and only get the earning out when the bad guys are only 5 miles away.

[Skean Dhude]

I don't understand what all the toing and froing is about.

NR has a defined requirement. he has decided what he wants to do and how to do it. He has identified the kit so away he goes. Job done. Don't know why he wants any assurances from anyone else.

Myself I have different requirements and am finalising my HF kit list. Almost there.

[Paul]

OK SD, I'll butt out then.

[The Local Ned]

I do understand what the toing and froing is about.

We have seen threads recently where all this has been discussed only for it to be viewed as one big headache.

We've all tried to point out the easiest comms setup , UKFM CB on CH19.

The more questions we've been asked and tried to answer , the more it has become apparent that trying to standardise the kit won't work , so we have to standardise the frequency instead.

500mW might get a signal out for one of us , where 5W might not make it for others.

I pointed out the capabilities of PMR446 , and the ease of modding the handsets ( and BASE-sets ) to full power and multi-bands....and was shot down in flames for making things more complicated. Now it seems the penny has dropped and what was a complication is now seen as an advantage just as I tried to point out ??

I'm out of this discussion as of now , it's been fun trying to share some insights , but when the help I try to give is disregarded , and I am ignored then what's the point.

[Martin200261]

(2 August 2012, 17:53)NorthernRaider Wrote: Martin why change whats not broken, everyone else uses CH 19 so it makes sense we use the same, for example after TSHTF you could be calling on CH 19 and a none prepper who is online hears you but is in a good position to help you replies?, not all sheeple are hostile to use, indeed many hobby CBers and Hams would probably try and help a prepper if they could.

The only true bone of contention I cannot overcome no matter after how much reassurance I get from Paul, LS and SD if the radio output, I feel most strongly that ten watt hand helds ( maybe as low as 7 watt at a push) is what we will need if we intend to adopt normal sorts of opsec on securing our homes, We will need good RX and TX to at least 15 miles to get the best effect.

I agree that ch19 makes sense but with people talking of using 80 channel sets with european frequencies I wasn't sure which direction we were heading. Myself, I'm up for CB 27/81 and ch19 for the mid range comms - nice and simple.

As for power, I think that's down to personal preference and knowing your local terrain - no need to standardise there just so long as we can shout to each other on the same frequency.

---

(3 August 2012, 00:43)The Local Ned Wrote: I do understand what the toing and froing is about.

We have seen threads recently where all this has been discussed only for it to be viewed as one big headache.

We've all tried to point out the easiest comms setup , UKFM CB on CH19.

The more questions we've been asked and tried to answer , the more it has become apparent that trying to standardise the kit won't work , so we have to standardise the frequency instead.

500mW might get a signal out for one of us , where 5W might not make it for others.

I pointed out the capabilities of PMR446 , and the ease of modding the handsets ( and BASE-sets ) to full power and multi-bands....and was shot down in flames for making things more complicated. Now it seems the penny has dropped and what was a complication is now seen as an advantage just as I tried to point out ??

I'm out of this discussion as of now , it's been fun trying to share some insights , but when the help I try to give is disregarded , and I am ignored then what's the point.

Afraid there is bound to be a lot of heated debate around comms since we all have different ideas of what we need as a personal solution.

I think a consensus is starting to emerge that there is no single solution and that we are all looking at variants of PMR446 for short range, CB (hopefully 27/81) for mid range and HF for long range with people choosing their own preferred combination according to their needs and priorities. Some of us will want to boost power outputs while others will be more concerned with reducing power consumption, so long as there is enough common ground that we can talk to each other then we're going in the right direction.

For myself, I want to include HF for longer range comms but will also be using CB, vhf and uhf for other purposes.

The CB will hopefully provide wider compatibilty with locals as well as preppers so that's a must for me.

vhf and uhf will keep me in touch with other hams and cover the pmr 446 channels.

Just want to sort out common ground with other preppers on HF comms so that I can keep in touch with the rest of the guys on here post shtf.