Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets'

[Scythe13]

(7 November 2012, 12:19)Prepper1 Wrote: My idea is to observe people from a remote point.

This is something I agree with, but have not figured out how I'll be able to do so. Not through inability, not through lack of high places, not through lack of remote places with good vantage points. My issue with this is......time. Im not going to have loads of time each day, or night, to sit about with my binocs, checking the horizon.

I think it's more likely they'll stumble on us, before we see them coming.

[bigpaul]

my thinking is this: my duty is to my immediate family and NO ONE else,in a SHTF/WROL/TEOTWAWKI situation i cannot be responsible for every waif and stray, no matter what their problem, like someone said if their not an immediate threat they might be carrying a disease one that might not be apparent for 10 days to a fortnight...are you going to endanger your group/family for a complete stranger?? even if no disease we assume they have no food or else why would they come begging? any food you give them is LESS for your group and lessens your groups chances of survival.

[uks]

(7 November 2012, 11:55)Scythe13 Wrote: I still see this as a moral dilemma. At the same time, it's also a survival situation, and the 2 are often conflicting issues.

It's given me lots to think about.

Don't think I'll be opening my doors!

It is the right choice and you have to stick to it.

[bigpaul]

(7 November 2012, 12:39)Scythe13 Wrote: I think it's more likely they'll stumble on us, before we see them coming.

in that case, how do you know what their intentions are? they might not be benign....your group could get wiped out...better to know who is in your area before they find you!

[Lightspeed]

(7 November 2012, 12:39)Scythe13 Wrote:

(7 November 2012, 12:19)Prepper1 Wrote: My idea is to observe people from a remote point.

This is something I agree with, but have not figured out how I'll be able to do so. Not through inability, not through lack of high places, not through lack of remote places with good vantage points. My issue with this is......time. Im not going to have loads of time each day, or night, to sit about with my binocs, checking the horizon.

I think it's more likely they'll stumble on us, before we see them coming.

Good thinking S13.

I hadn't considered that.

You're right.... I need to ponder it a bit.

[NorthernRaider]

Dont worry about the sheeple the government will take care of them thats why the loony left taxes us 45% NI tax at 14% and VAT at 20% all these hundreds of billions pounds will ensure first rate civil defence and disaster relief equipment will be available, wont it Barney?? .......... Barney????

[Prepper1]

If you want to remain safe you need sentry's or guards to cover what your doing at ALL times then no surprises.
All movements to be done to patrolling standards.

If one persons looking for food or scavenging then another is watching with a loaded weapon ready to fire and always watching all around taking no part in the hunting or gathering process, security and safety is their only reason for being there.

There must be a plan for "contact" ie distant contact or heard voices, stop all movement and quickly secrete yourself and remain silent.

The sentry/guard then accesses the situation and goes from there, ie plan b then plan c etc...

At all times at the bol sentry duty must be maintained.

That's where everybody can help 2 hours on 2 hours off etc...

This MUST happen no matter what, whether its cold, raining, sunny, day or night whatever.

Your old life and habits must be left behind quickly if you want to survive.

You must go from civilian overnight to guerrilla and no not the ape kind.

Prime time for attacks is bad weather and darkness.

That's where it get tiring if there's only two of you.

If there's only one, you can squirrel yourself away somewhere safe, maybe.

Groups have more people available for duties BUT more noise to keep down.

Silent running at all times for at least 6 months to a year if you don't want anyone to hear you.

Sound can travel a long way, so can firelight, smells of smoke and cooking food.

Are you and yours prepared to eat cold food?

Have you got food in your preps that can be made with cold water?

Tins are great because you can just open and eat with mostly no cooking required.

[Scythe13]

(7 November 2012, 12:43)bigpaul Wrote: better to know who is in your area before they find you!

I completely agree with that. But I'm unsure HOW that is going to be possible?!?!? I'd love to have an early warning system, and stuff like that. I'd love to see them coming, so that I can watch them and work out their intentions (if possible), but that's really unlikely to happen. They'll notice you before you notice them, in at least 90% of the occurrences!

As LS said, it's a thought he hadn't looked into.

With prepping there is an element of fantasy. That's a fact, and it's very hard to stay level headed and logical. The people best at doing that (that I've met in person) are SD and Terry. Both have a very logical look on things and they see stuff I've never considered. I'm not kissing butt, but I am promoting where it's due. I've not met all the preppers on here, so I'm not knocking anyone else.

This element of fantasy is clear in all of us. Yes, even me...would you think it?!?!? haha.

The thing is, when you break things down into a logical system, that's when issues arise. The idea of being shot by an arrow....damn that's going to hurt! Anyone that says it'll kill me.....what basis is that statement on? How many people have you shot with an arrow? Have you tried shooting a moving target and getting a one shot kill? I have no doubt that it will fricking hurt like mad. But one arrow probably won't take most people down and kill them straight out. More than likely they'll be hurt, but probably not a one shot kill. I'm just as guilty with the fantasy view, so I'm not having a go at anyone.


The logical vs theoretical prepping argument is HUGE when looking at this WROL issue.

As preppers, we plan to survive, farm, harvest, and generally live an agrarian lifestyle. That lifestyle means....you're going to be f**king busy all day!!! Gathering/filtering water, hunting, butchering, farming, building, cooking, collecting/chopping fire wood, making arrows, making fire, home-brewing, and loads of other things. As a result, we're not going to have time scouting a 360 degree horizon. But who has a totally flat horizon? We'll be looking up and down as well!!!

If you're bugging out to a BOL, or your home is a BOL, it's very likely your home is going to be seen from a distance!!! Can anyone else see the issue here? You WILL be seen before you see them!!! I'm not hugely sure that'll be debatable.

Imagine it the other way round. You're wondering around, in a WROL setting. Do you think you're going to see a house in the distance? You're dressed in camo, or dark colours. You're aware that you could well get attacked, and so are probably carrying your knife/bow/gun with you. Do you think you'll see the house, hear someone chopping wood, see a f**king road or path leading somewhere? Of course you would. No point underestimating sheeple. Yes they are dumb, but then again, they can't all be dumb, because there will be people with eyes that can see a house in the distance!

With that in mind, the whole BOL situation changes, in my opinion.

---

This change means that anyone approaching, is either desperate, genuinely interested in helping, carrying news, or part of a wolf-pack of hunters.

With this in mind, everything changes.

You can shoot at them, you can pretend you're not home....but they heard the chopping, they can see the smoke, they can see your farmed fields, they hear that dog/cow/sheep/baby.

You're going to have confrontations up close and personal. They might just be looking for a bit of water on their way somewhere else. Who knows. But looking over a horizon 24/7, even if it's between 3 people, is going to be hard going!!!

Do you engage? How do you know their intentions? If you let them go, will they tell others of your location? Are they bringing news of your whereabouts? What's the situation? You can't tell, until you're face to face speaking, and even that might not be enough. Maybe they're from a fellow prepping group and are looking to barter?!?!? We all have barter items. What for, if we're not going to interact with people outside of our group/team?

[Prepper1]

(7 November 2012, 13:19)Scythe13 Wrote:

(7 November 2012, 12:43)bigpaul Wrote: better to know who is in your area before they find you!

I completely agree with that. But I'm unsure HOW that is going to be possible?!?!? I'd love to have an early warning system, and stuff like that. I'd love to see them coming, so that I can watch them and work out their intentions (if possible), but that's really unlikely to happen. They'll notice you before you notice them, in at least 90% of the occurrences!

As LS said, it's a thought he hadn't looked into.

With prepping there is an element of fantasy. That's a fact, and it's very hard to stay level headed and logical. The people best at doing that (that I've met in person) are SD and Terry. Both have a very logical look on things and they see stuff I've never considered. I'm not kissing butt, but I am promoting where it's due. I've not met all the preppers on here, so I'm not knocking anyone else.

This element of fantasy is clear in all of us. Yes, even me...would you think it?!?!? haha.

The thing is, when you break things down into a logical system, that's when issues arise. The idea of being shot by an arrow....damn that's going to hurt! Anyone that says it'll kill me.....what basis is that statement on? How many people have you shot with an arrow? Have you tried shooting a moving target and getting a one shot kill? I have no doubt that it will fricking hurt like mad. But one arrow probably won't take most people down and kill them straight out. More than likely they'll be hurt, but probably not a one shot kill. I'm just as guilty with the fantasy view, so I'm not having a go at anyone.


The logical vs theoretical prepping argument is HUGE when looking at this WROL issue.

As preppers, we plan to survive, farm, harvest, and generally live an agrarian lifestyle. That lifestyle means....you're going to be f**king busy all day!!! Gathering/filtering water, hunting, butchering, farming, building, cooking, collecting/chopping fire wood, making arrows, making fire, home-brewing, and loads of other things. As a result, we're not going to have time scouting a 360 degree horizon. But who has a totally flat horizon? We'll be looking up and down as well!!!

If you're bugging out to a BOL, or your home is a BOL, it's very likely your home is going to be seen from a distance!!! Can anyone else see the issue here? You WILL be seen before you see them!!! I'm not hugely sure that'll be debatable.

Imagine it the other way round. You're wondering around, in a WROL setting. Do you think you're going to see a house in the distance? You're dressed in camo, or dark colours. You're aware that you could well get attacked, and so are probably carrying your knife/bow/gun with you. Do you think you'll see the house, hear someone chopping wood, see a f**king road or path leading somewhere? Of course you would. No point underestimating sheeple. Yes they are dumb, but then again, they can't all be dumb, because there will be people with eyes that can see a house in the distance!

With that in mind, the whole BOL situation changes, in my opinion.

---

This change means that anyone approaching, is either desperate, genuinely interested in helping, carrying news, or part of a wolf-pack of hunters.

With this in mind, everything changes.

You can shoot at them, you can pretend you're not home....but they heard the chopping, they can see the smoke, they can see your farmed fields, they hear that dog/cow/sheep/baby.

You're going to have confrontations up close and personal. They might just be looking for a bit of water on their way somewhere else. Who knows. But looking over a horizon 24/7, even if it's between 3 people, is going to be hard going!!!

Do you engage? How do you know their intentions? If you let them go, will they tell others of your location? Are they bringing news of your whereabouts? What's the situation? You can't tell, until you're face to face speaking, and even that might not be enough. Maybe they're from a fellow prepping group and are looking to barter?!?!? We all have barter items. What for, if we're not going to interact with people outside of our group/team?

Yup its called battle fatigue, Its a downside of being constantly on alert and hyped up for combat.
Unless we are in a walled citadel with specialized units for guard duty and combat so the others can let there hair down and concentrate on planting or chopping wood say its going to be a fact of life until wrol is not a threat anymore.
Whens that going to happen?
Who's up for building a walled citadel now then?

[Scythe13]

(7 November 2012, 13:36)Prepper1 Wrote: Yup its called battle fatigue, Its a downside of being constantly on alert and hyped up for combat.
Unless we are in a walled citadel with specialized units for guard duty and combat so the others can let there hair down and concentrate on planting or chopping wood say its going to be a fact of life until wrol is not a threat anymore.
Whens that going to happen?
Who's up for building a walled citadel now then?

I'm not military trained, and don't pretend to be.

What I'm looking for is answers, same as most people on here. I know in Patriots, they take the guy in, keep him guarded, question him, then slowly they accept him and what he says. Then he becomes a part of the group. Granted he added benefit to the team, but they handled it well.

I'm wondering how we deal with a similar situation.

We're back to the initial argument, shoot first, ask questions first, try to hide (very unlikely, since they saw us first), and stuff like that.