why cities will become lawless shortly after major event

[bigpaul]

(9 May 2013, 22:59)Rush2112 Wrote: agree with your assesment Tibbs. I was thinking along those lines too. stay outta site and wait for things to unfold. one of my biggest concerns, as the articale touches on, is the powers that be (TPTB) on a local level will attempt to impose their authority and confiscate what they want. dont think one will apease them by saying " we'll give what we can." in my opinion it will be more like " no we're (TPTB) taking everything and you will get your portions from us, after you fill out these forms in triplicate."

that may happen in the cities or very large towns, but local councils are so underfunded and wishy washy these days that it wont happen, we have said before that even with Army and Police in attendance the numbers are so low they wont be able to police the whole country but will concentrate on the capital and 1 or 2 of the larger cities(Birmingham & Manchester?).

[MCavity]

I second Tibbs statement. After 90 days of no new food & unclean water the population would be decimated by ill health and dehydration. The trick here for me would be to hide in plain sight if 'community milita' crop up.

[bigpaul]

"community militia" would be no better than street gangs, give my food to those people, no way brother!

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not that i am in a city but if it goes pear shaped that bad then we will already have bugged out.

[Timelord]

that may happen in the cities or very large towns, but local councils are so underfunded and wishy washy these days that it wont happen, we have said before that even with Army and Police in attendance the numbers are so low they wont be able to police the whole country but will concentrate on the capital and 1 or 2 of the larger cities(Birmingham & Manchester?).
[/quote]

Hello BP. That is right but it will all depend how fast the situation unfolds. Don't forget that it will be other government organisations that will be requisitioning supplies. Some of those supplies may include fuel or gas supplies from less populated areas to attempt to relieve the more populated ones. If the situation continues to deteriorate, then that may directly impact a diverse catchment area.

[bigpaul]

(11 May 2013, 01:29)Timelord Wrote: Hello BP. That is right but it will all depend how fast the situation unfolds. Don't forget that it will be other government organisations that will be requisitioning supplies. Some of those supplies may include fuel or gas supplies from less populated areas to attempt to relieve the more populated ones. If the situation continues to deteriorate, then that may directly impact a diverse catchment area.

yes TL, but it depends on how big that "catchment" area is and how far the authorities want to encompass, we are 25,30 &40 miles away from any large urban populations.

[Anything Really]

My local city is only a baby compared to Manchester but i still have no intention of venturing into it once TSHTF.

[bigpaul]

(11 May 2013, 16:08)Anything Really Wrote: My local city is only a baby compared to Manchester but i still have no intention of venturing into it once TSHTF.

nearest city to us is 30 miles away, population 136,000, next one 40 miles away, pop 250,000, there are ONLY 2 cities in Devon, but like you say no way am i going there post shtf.

[CodeGreen]

Many thanks for linking to an article from my site - the sudden flurry of click-throughs caused me to come see what was happening here, 'on the other side of the pond'.

Prepping in the UK - my goodness me, what a difficult scenario that is; my sympathies to you all. As you doubtless know, two overriding themes of prepping on my side of the Atlantic are getting far away from major population centers, and being able to arm oneself against not just the anticipated hordes of looters and gangs, but also the unfortunate starving masses who have no choice but to take whatever they can in a desperate attempt at survival.

I discuss what we anticipate to be a typical sequence of events in another article Four Waves of Food and Shelter Seekers on my Code Green Prep site. Although written for an American audience, the underlying social dynamics are all too similar to what you'll confront.

But what to do in the UK? I read somewhere, some years back, that England has the highest population density of anywhere in the EU. Actually, a quick bit of Google-fu shows England to be the sixth most crowded country in the entire world - see this Daily Mail article.

To put this into contrast, in England, you had 401 people per square km in 2011, and doubtless more, now. Here in the 'American Redoubt' we have a population density of 7.4/sq km in Idaho, and 2.6 in Montana. The US as a whole averages 34/sq km.

So, what to do? When considering a location for your retreat, head north, to the Highlands, would be my suggestion. With an average population density of 67.2/sq km throughout the country, and massively less once you subtract out Glasgow and Edinburgh, you start to get much more sustainable population levels. According to Wikipedia, the Highlands (the exact region being not clearly defined) and the Outer Hebrides have population densities of only 9/sq km.

Remembering also that you need distance buffers from major population centers, that suggests a location in the western Highlands, well away from Inverness and safely away from the A82 and A9. Get as close to the coast as you can.

I've enjoyed quite a bit of time in this part of Scotland, so I'm not just a Yank telling you things I don't actually know anything about. Indeed, if at all possible, there's a lot to be said for creating a retreat in the Outer Hebrides, with the simultaneous upside/downside being access there in an emergency. Calmac is enough of a struggle at the best of times!

The good news is that many of the communities, off the coast in particular, already are in large part self-reliant and/or have closely held memories of when they were subsistence crofters. It would be easy for them to adjust back to this lifestyle. And the even better news is that land is cheap in those areas. Plus you have access to peat as an energy source, and possibly wind power too.

So those are some thoughts as to location. Now, as to firearms, that's not a topic I can readily offer solutions on, alas. Needless to say, with the population crush in England, any attempt at establishing a retreat there will be challenged by opportunists and looters, and all the usual suspects that I won't risk being politically incorrect by listing. The need for effective self defense in a situation where you may well be outnumbered is a huge issue.

Which brings me back to the highlands.....

[Anything Really]

I've often thought that the Highlands would be a great BOL but I fear it would be hard going for us soft Englishmen.

[CodeGreen]

You're very correct - life in the Highlands isn't very easy. Crofting was - and is - little more than subsistence living, and the Blackhouses are grim and far removed from the creature comforts we have come to expect and enjoy.

But, here's the thing. Nowhere will be easy to live WTSHTF! The loss of abundant inexpensive energy will transform food production and most other aspects of our lifestyles. We'll be dropped back to a pre-Industrial Revolution lifestyle until such time as we can start to bootstrap ourselves up again.

The things the Highlands have going for them - low population density, low cost to establish a retreat, plentiful water, potential wind power, and peat as a fuel source. But only low to moderate fertility on the land (I think, haven't researched soil types, crop yields per acre, etc). A tough climate, but no worse than we experience in the 'American Redoubt' - indeed, probably better. We have searingly hot summers and yards of snow in the winters.

I would have said that the local population in the Highlands are a hardy and self-sufficient lot, but then I look with surprise and dismay at the exploding growth of government services in Scotland and what seems to be a wholesale retreat away from the concepts of self-sufficiency and self-reliance, much more so than in England. The 'hardy' Scots seem to be redefining themselves.