Pulling the trigger.

[Highlander]

(24 November 2013, 23:21)Danzord Wrote: That was my thinking but im also wondering if theres any way to alter the way you would be able to act or if its just the way you are and thats that.

Well its not the way you are, its only the way you are now, you can be changed but there is only one way I know you could do it,

....and I doubt you would want to join the Army to find out.

I remember having these same thoughts when I was a young soldier, it was dead easy to kill that wooden target, but what if,....
It was not until Northern Ireland turned up that I found out, I now know I could and would without hesitation,.. but it was only training that did it for me

[Danzord]

(24 November 2013, 23:48)Highlander Wrote:

(24 November 2013, 23:21)Danzord Wrote: That was my thinking but im also wondering if theres any way to alter the way you would be able to act or if its just the way you are and thats that.

Well its not the way you are, its only the way you are now, you can be changed but there is only one way I know you could do it,

....and I doubt you would want to join the Army to find out.

I remember having these same thoughts when I was a young soldier, it was dead easy to kill that wooden target, but what if,....
It was not until Northern Ireland turned up that I found out, I now know I could and would without hesitation,.. but it was only training that did it for me

Yeah i guess its just a case of wait and see then, unless any of the training could be replicated to an extent?

[Highlander]

(24 November 2013, 23:53)Danzord Wrote: Yeah i guess its just a case of wait and see then, unless any of the training could be replicated to an extent?

I dont think it is just the training though, I think it is the length of the training, a soldier will train for this until he can he can do it almost without thinking, certainly without arguing about it,... a civilian cant

Having said that many people can do it without any training at all, those that do it to protect others and those who are scared for their own lives,..... and there are many natural killers out there, and its those guys we would rather not come up against after an event

[Danzord]

(25 November 2013, 00:00)Highlander Wrote:

(24 November 2013, 23:53)Danzord Wrote: Yeah i guess its just a case of wait and see then, unless any of the training could be replicated to an extent?

I dont think it is just the training though, I think it is the length of the training, a soldier will train for this until he can he can do it almost without thinking, certainly without arguing about it,... a civilian cant

Having said that many people can do it without any training at all, those that do it to protect others and those who are scared for their own lives,..... and there are many natural killers out there, and its those guys we would rather not come up against after an event

I've never been a soldier so i realy dont know much about the training, just looking for things that could help, the thought i may not be able to protect my family
if something happens scares the s##t out of me.

[Midnitemo]

there are as many as 1% of society who are thought to be sociopaths.....600,000 people who aren't burdened with morals scruples and a conscience like the rest of us....be scared!

[Danzord]

(25 November 2013, 00:10)Midnitemo Wrote: there are as many as 1% of society who are thought to be sociopaths.....600,000 people who aren't burdened with morals scruples and a conscience like the rest of us....be scared!

Yeah, there always will be people like that, but knowing i stood a chance because i knew what i was capable of would be some comfort, even if i knew i couldnt deliver a fatal blow atleast i could find alternative solutions, as it is ill just have to hope.

[Mortblanc]

(25 November 2013, 00:10)Midnitemo Wrote: there are as many as 1% of society who are thought to be sociopaths.....600,000 people who aren't burdened with morals scruples and a conscience like the rest of us....be scared!

But not all sociopaths are criminals and not all are evil.

While they may not have a moral compass or conscience they still have an avoidance of discomfort when they recognize consequences for their actions.

As for "pulling the trigger", I have found that there is a great deal of cultural influence also involved.

In some cultures it takes extreme provocation before persons will violently resist danger. In other cultures every man, woman and child over the age of 2 will fight to the death at the slightest opposition.

Or that their salvation depends on how many they can kill as they meet death.

While we sit at the keyboard and debate whether we could do this or that under stress there are people just down the road that view duct taping a bomb to their belly a "life choice".

If you intend to live through a crisis you better make a decision one way or the other PDQ.

[Timelord]

From that 600,000 you would have to remove the elderly infirm, physically incapable, small children or incapacitated for whatever reason - variable to the SHTF scenario. It will still leave a lot though but every geographical area will differ.
If you are wondering over the question of whether you could take another human life and are wrestling with this mentally, then you will not find out until the moment happens. If you are already genuinely confident of being able to carry it out then you probably won't be wrestling with the dilemma. Desensitization is the normal training method practised to overcome this "normal" human dilemma. Military practice this desensitization and the majority of console & PC games also are in this vein, which is indeed worrying! If you are worried about whether you could do it or not, then desensitization training would be required to change this to be confident of being able to carry the action out. (that is not false self deluding confidence but of actually being --mentally at ease-- with the idea of killing another human being - for individually morally acceptable SHTF reasons of course!!) I am not condoning any aspect of this thread, I am just discussing emotion & practicalities of the dilemma in a hypothetical third person sense..
For those that don't have any concept of the dilemma and don't give it a second thought after it being put to them, than they probably fall somewhere in the 600,000 category. Best avoid! lol. TL.

[Danzord]

(25 November 2013, 01:22)Timelord Wrote: From that 600,000 you would have to remove the elderly infirm, physically incapable, small children or incapacitated for whatever reason - variable to the SHTF scenario. It will still leave a lot though but every geographical area will differ.
If you are wondering over the question of whether you could take another human life and are wrestling with this mentally, then you will not find out until the moment happens. If you are already genuinely confident of being able to carry it out then you probably won't be wrestling with the dilemma. Desensitization is the normal training method practised to overcome this "normal" human dilemma. Military practice this desensitization and the majority of console & PC games also are in this vein, which is indeed worrying! If you are worried about whether you could do it or not, then desensitization training would be required to change this to be confident of being able to carry the action out. (that is not false self deluding confidence but of actually being --mentally at ease-- with the idea of killing another human being - for individually morally acceptable SHTF reasons of course!!) I am not condoning any aspect of this thread, I am just discussing emotion & practicalities of the dilemma in a hypothetical third person sense..
For those that don't have any concept of the dilemma and don't give it a second thought after it being put to them, than they probably fall somewhere in the 600,000 category. Best avoid! lol. TL.

I just posted this to make people think when they talk about defense that there are more aspects than having and using a weapon, i certainly dont want to become desensitised. I just think that if people are going to talk about these things they should consider the psycological effects as well. I dont think anyone outside that small percentage will be at ease with killing but everyones minds are different and i just wanted some other veiwpoints.

[Midnitemo]

I don't want to kill but I feel given the right circumstances(maybe that should be wrong circumstances)and the right incentives and motivation I feel certain I would.....would I fret about it?....maybe but i'd have to say probably not.