Pulling the trigger.

[CharlesHarris]

I can't help thinking where the US will be in another generation, if there is no course correction to keep the steerage passengers from taking over the ship, running it aground at flank speed while drinking the remaining free booze on board while the band plays a mix of hip-hip, arabic qasidah and marriachi music.

All should read Keith Lowe's Savage Continent, his non-fiction account of ground truth across Europe at the close of World War II and the years immediately thereafter. Based largely on primary sources on both sides of the Iron Curtain, Lowe takes the reader into a world deliberately obscured for multiple reasons by both victor and vanquished alike.

Simply put, an orgy of slaughter, savagery, terror, and revenge – at both individual and national policy levels – conducted mostly after hostilities had officially ceased. To his credit, Lowe tells the truth about modern, civilized human behavior in the wake of world-historical disruptions, perpetrated by all sides against anyone who stood in their way. It is about our illusions of civility, and the loss of those illusions.

[Mortblanc]

(25 November 2013, 01:40)Danzord Wrote:

(25 November 2013, 01:22)Timelord Wrote: From that 600,000 you would have to remove the elderly infirm, physically incapable, small children or incapacitated for whatever reason - variable to the SHTF scenario. It will still leave a lot though but every geographical area will differ.
If you are wondering over the question of whether you could take another human life and are wrestling with this mentally, then you will not find out until the moment happens. If you are already genuinely confident of being able to carry it out then you probably won't be wrestling with the dilemma. Desensitization is the normal training method practised to overcome this "normal" human dilemma. Military practice this desensitization and the majority of console & PC games also are in this vein, which is indeed worrying! If you are worried about whether you could do it or not, then desensitization training would be required to change this to be confident of being able to carry the action out. (that is not false self deluding confidence but of actually being --mentally at ease-- with the idea of killing another human being - for individually morally acceptable SHTF reasons of course!!) I am not condoning any aspect of this thread, I am just discussing emotion & practicalities of the dilemma in a hypothetical third person sense..
For those that don't have any concept of the dilemma and don't give it a second thought after it being put to them, than they probably fall somewhere in the 600,000 category. Best avoid! lol. TL.

I just posted this to make people think when they talk about defense that there are more aspects than having and using a weapon, i certainly dont want to become desensitised. I just think that if people are going to talk about these things they should consider the psycological effects as well. I dont think anyone outside that small percentage will be at ease with killing but everyones minds are different and i just wanted some other veiwpoints.

Perhaps problem number one is that people today are OVERSENSITIZED!

We get so tied up worrying about PTSD and the after effects of the traumatic experiences that we forget that "survival" is about living through the trauma and dealing with the fact that we are still alive, and kept our loved ones alive, when it is over.

Which is better, traumatized or dead?

Which is better, looking down at a dead scumbag or burying your wife and kids after the scumbag gets through with them?

If you are not quite sure if you can handle coming out on the other side perhaps you are wasting your time stashing two liter bottles in the commode tank and diligently searching for two for one offers on baked beans.

No one promised us a rose garden.

---

You Brits used to call it "keeping a stiff upper lip".

The American term is "suck it up and grow a pair".

[I-K-E]

never can tell until you are in a situation when you have to do it

however discussing what you my have to do in a particular situation can make you consider it. Me and the OH have both spoken about this and we are both of the realisation that if the time came we may have to pull the trigger in order for us and the little one to survive.

on another point I honestly believe that everyone is a killer if they are given the right motivation

[Nix]

Excellent question.

Unless they've done it before, no one is going to know for sure how killing another Human Being will affect them or even if they could do it in the first place. I don't care how tough some people make out they are, looking someone in the eye and pulling the trigger is not to be taken lightly or done easily. Most certainly it'll be the pyschological aspect that will be most difficult to deal with. Too easy to mouth off that you're the son of Rambo and wiping out a whole gang of baddies is all in a days work and won't disturb your sleep.

I have often thought about this scenario and I've come to the conclusion that thinking about it is the only prep available ie psyching yourself up to the possibility. What will certainly help is to be able to justify it. This will most likely be in the form of "protecting loved ones". Think about what would happen and how you would feel if you didn't act quickly enough with conviction? You'd never forgive yourself.

Keep that in mind and, hopefully, if you are ever faced with this decision, you'll do the right thing. JMHO.

[bigpaul]

if its Post SHTF and if its the difference between your family living or dying I don't think anyone will think twice!! chances are they probably don't even speak English anyway so remonstrating with them is a waste of time and will give them the chance to sneak up behind you and bash you over the head.

[Midnitemo]

I think NIX is right , if you can justify it then it should sit better with your conscience but there maybe a time where you act in haste and repent that decision afterwards...i think we all have to be guided by our moral compasses.

[BDG]

I was going write a personal experience thing, but this is not the place for war stories.

Killing some one - you either can do it, or you cannot do it. There is no might.

As has been said, if you want to find out, join the army, but the opportunities to find out that existed over the last decade are decreasing.

Best not to find out unless you really have to. Picking an itchy scab is never a good idea.

[Skean Dhude]

(25 November 2013, 14:19)I-K-E Wrote: on another point I honestly believe that everyone is a killer if they are given the right motivation

Agree but in this namby pamby society the default for decent folk is to wait and let the authorities sort it out. That is what we have been programmed to do. Those that don't follow the rules have the advantage at athe start of the event. After a while the veneer comes off and we are all about survival. It is the inital few months where we have an issue.

[Skean Dhude]

(25 November 2013, 23:33)BDG Wrote: Killing some one - you either can do it, or you cannot do it. There is no might.

Under normal circumstances this is true. People can make a choice and if the other party follows the law then that is the end of it. If the other party doesn't you are dead.

After an event though you don't have the option and you will be forced to do things you would not do now.

So now, as it is all theory it is might for most of us. Some won't, some will.

[Scythe13]

There are certain resources available that will give you a heads up to know what you can expect and to know that once you have done it, you can go through certain 'exercises' to help you deal with it.

Also, you can go through various 'exercises' to help you get into the mindset where you will actually pull the trigger.

On Combat is a great place to start, as is On Killing, for the justification and moral edge.