Knowledge decreases weight

[Midnitemo]

Yeah agreed its a circumstances thing.....but circumstances weren't against s13 on this occasion and I would have been looking for a more sheltered spot and some of natures insulation if the weather was being a real bitch but it wasn't.....the way I see it is going back to basic's and playing the stoneage wonder woodsman is a nice hobby but could you be arsed with time taken/effort expended on a daily basis if you were living it rather than playing at it....kit is really really good now and cheap(ish) I know how i'd prefer to do it and that's with a selection of well chosen and multipically duplicated modern outdoor kit....I just see it as perverse wanting to do things the old fashioned way.

[Mortblanc]

Anyone can survive in good weather!

[Midnitemo]

(13 December 2013, 16:39)Midnitemo Wrote: Yeah agreed its a circumstances thing.....but circumstances weren't against s13 on this occasion and I would have been looking for a more sheltered spot and some of natures insulation if the weather was being a real bitch but it wasn't.....the way I see it is going back to basic's and playing the stoneage wonder woodsman is a nice hobby but could you be arsed with time taken/effort expended on a daily basis if you were living it rather than playing at it....kit is really really good now and cheap(ish) I know how i'd prefer to do it and that's with a selection of well chosen and multipically duplicated modern outdoor kit....I just see it as perverse wanting to do things the old fashioned way.

in the same way as I don't understand the Amish not wanting to embrace modernity and its benefits.

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Mort you haven't met my youngest son and his dickhead mates....I wouldn't back them to survive anything....failed the the bronze D of E for lack of effort and ability!!!!

[bigpaul]

technology is not "the be all and end all", some people want no part of it(I believe their religion has something to do with it for the amish..although I think there are several branches of the faithful with varying sorts of minimal acceptance of "technology"...)some people just want the bits they can use and disregard the rest, and some people cant live without their plazma tvs, latest mobile phones, and all the rest of the gizmo's and gadgets.

[Midnitemo]

Technology isn't the be all but why would you shun modern equipment when you're up against it....its almost like you're trying to handicap yourself!...why would you do that? its going to be difficult enough with a selection of sensible modern kit.

[bigpaul]

my thoughts are that the sooner we all learn to live without technology the sooner we will be prepared for what is surely to come, everything will break down or wear out post collapse so unless we can learn to repair it or make it from scratch learn to do without it. we don't have to live without it Permanently NOW but we CAN learn the skills to live without it for when we HAVE to. I know not everybody agrees with this philosophy so ignore the above if you so wish.

[Midnitemo]

I don't subscribe to a return to the middle ages , the kit i'm thinking of doesn't wear out and break at the kind of rates you're expecting and none of it requires power or significant maintainence....building temporary shelters and making fire with bowdrill's are quaint but I don't see any practicle or sensible use for it when there are canvas/taffeta/poly tarps , firesteels . silva type compases....these things make life a lot easier and don't wear out at terrific rates.....buy a few and cache them, you wouldn't need many to outlast you.....some sort of society/order will come to be and people won't be living nomadically in the woods for any length of time.

[Scythe13]

I totally get what you're saying MNM.

But I'll just correct 1 quick thing for you mate, before I get into my main response

(13 December 2013, 16:39)Midnitemo Wrote: Yeah agreed its a circumstances thing.....but circumstances weren't against s13 on this occasion

There were only a handful of hours (it's winter so getting dark early and I arrived on site at past midday), and also it was down at -1 degrees by midnight, so could have been as low as -3 in the night. I'd have to say they are not ideal. People have died at higher temps than that. Not having a go, but just pointing something out.

Okay, on with my main response...I'm all for awesome gear mate!!! Every meet we have I'm trying out some new gear. Even had a new 1 man tent for the last Dartmoor camp, but opted for a different challenge. Was I making it harder for myself? Nope. More effort, but I slept just as comfortable in my shelter, if not better than many on the trip.

Now, let's play a little game called "Sod's Law". You find yourself out and about, in the middle of nowhere, and your backpack with all your amazing gear falls off your back by some feet of magic. Maybe it gets stolen while you sleep, or a spark from a fire burns your tent down, or who knows what else. But one thing we are going to play thing is the idea that you're out in the wilderness, without your gear. BOLLOCKS!!!! What now mate?

I can tell you exactly where CS13 (Cave-Scythe13) will be heading...wherever he wants. He is learning the skills to survive and has practiced them thoroughly. CS13 is happy as can be. Yes it'll take a bit more effort because he doesn't have his spinacker cloth tent, or any of his cool high tech gear, but he still knows where to get what he needs and how to make it comfortable.

Now, without your gear, and without using a similar sentence to "I'd be screwed" please describe your response, as you only have a few hours of light left and the temp will be dropping to at least -1 degrees tonight, possibly even -3, because it's winter...
You'd be like a scuba diver without air or an astronaut without all their high tech gear. Same as many 'survivalists' in the wild. Without their gear they're underwater without air!


Just because I choose to go primitive and learn those skills, it doesn't mean I'm against tech gear at all. To think that would be a classic example of a major assumption going wrong. Horribly wrong!!!

For a little more fun, I have some solar panels for my bag coming, and I even mentioned playing Monopoly on my iPod in the shelter in the morning.

[Midnitemo]

I did say somewhere earlier in the thread , would be a boon if you were stranded without kit......the bottom line for me is I know exposure is the killer and I don't need to practice building an a frame shelter as I know whats required , I know what might be usefull as insulation , I know that a spot out of the wind would be good , I know about deadfall.....tis all common sense and experience... I don't doubt that i'd live to fight another day if I fell into your scenario....just common sense and application .... survival by archaic means is a hobby...pretty usefull but still a hobby , most of the ancients methods evolved...slowly in some cases.

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Going back to the original question posed"knowledge reduces weight" I don't nessescarily agree...i'd say knowledge can give you more options possibly save your bacon and make life easier or better , but I doubt i'd leave anything out because of it....cs13 you wouldn't discard you're bivvy/tent/tarps because you know how to build a shelter would you? same with the firesteel/ships matches/lighters? no me either lol

[Scythe13]

MNM, you do make a fair point about not discarding items, however, there are many items that my knowledge has caused me to discard. Things such as cutlery and many fire starters have been thrown. I only carry minimal fire gear now incase I can't find some natural tinder or incase the area is too wet to quickly get a fire going.

There are items I'm still packing, but many that I've thrown out. I think the initial post mentioned my throwing out of the Ray Mears survival manual. Not because it's useless, but because the benefit it provides isn't too great given my current level of experience. I'm pretty good with fire-craft, shelter, water sourcing and purifying, plant I.D., cooking, and many other skills. So, knowledge has allowed me to remove that. Now, a tent is optional. A tarp would be considered a luxury now. Much of the food I pack has been reduced as well. I could even go as far as to remove most of my cooking gear as well. I can pretty well produce pots and pans for 'rock boils' out of wood.

The more you know, the less you need to carry.