Knowledge decreases weight

[Midnitemo]

thats a cool achievement , is your partner upto your level of bushcraft too....if you mistakenly ate a toxic plant and were laid low with a raging fever and torpor would she be able to function aswell on minimal kit whilst waiting your recovery or demise....my kit is there to make everyone comfortable, i could probably trim a few things out of my kit but i carry them for the greater good of those travelling with me...don't get me wrong bushcraft is great and at some point it may get you out of a hole but don't believe it has all the answers , you'll expend a lot off time and energy doing things au naturelle and its bloody well hard trying to make it of the land unaided...indiginous people devoted most of the waking day to just getting buy 7 days a week

[Scythe13]

(14 December 2013, 00:14)Midnitemo Wrote: thats a cool achievement , is your partner upto your level of bushcraft too....if you mistakenly ate a toxic plant and were laid low with a raging fever and torpor would she be able to function aswell on minimal kit whilst waiting your recovery or demise

Another assumption there mate.

My kit is not minimal. I have a tent, 1kg of beef jerky (she's a veggie so has veggie jerky stuff), about 100 litres worth of water purification tablets, more water purification gear including survival straw, a sleeping bag with 3 liners, a bivi-bag, a space-blanket mylar mummy sleeve (imagine a large sleeping bag liner that's made of space blanket material, tarp (yes a tent and a tarp in the same bag), micro stove, gas for the stove, a small pot/mug thing that holds my cooking gear, and a few other lovely items e.g. spare boxers and socks, toilet paper, soap, as well as thermals in the wife's BOB. Obviously there are the knives and other such that are basic requirements (include chocolate and sanitary products for the wife). Add mobile phone, iPod, solar charger, headphones, UV3-r, Pebble battery pack, and a few other "nice to have's"

The thing is mate, you're making another assumption. My kit is not minimal at all!

I can make a damn good camping area while I go primitive and make a small log shelter/cabin. If any of my gear is broken or ruined that's not a problem because I have the skills. Also the comment with the 'accidentally eat a poisonous....etc' that's why you restrict your diet to the things you know and know well. Of the mushrooms, I can recognise 1 of them PERFECTLY without mistake. The reason being, there is only 1 mushroom in the UK that takes that size and shape, so you can't mistake it for anything else. As for other plants, I only stick to what I know, and I'm learning more everyday! There are some plants that look 'similar' to poisonous plants, I steer well away from both!

Let's play a simple enough game called "Sod's law" again. If you lost your gear or a member of your team was separated from the group. Or your fire starting equipment doesn't work (you lost your flint and steel, lighter isn't lighting, etc) would you and your group be okay? Would that separated member be able to survive?

It's not a walk in the park, living off the land caveman style, but the more you know, the easier it is (which is kind of off the thread now, we'll start another thread to discuss this in a minute). I know that my wife is able to do about 75% of the skills I have and a few I don't have, and 100% of the basics e.g. shelter, water, fire, food (in that order). I also know that she is able to smoke food and air dry it to make jerky that'll last us a long time. She was taught to tickle trout by her uncle and has done so as a kid and can still do so....yes, I think she'd be fine mate (we have a couple of streams here that do have trout for definite).

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When I see a back-packer, I look at them and see a scuba diver. They're reliant on their kit. As soon as their kit fails them, they have a short time until they're dead.

[bigpaul]

relying on modern technology is fine for now, but lets imagine your out in the woods somewhere or on the moors, your being chased by some bad guy or maybe several "wrong uns", the only way you can escape is by dropping your pack and running like hell! where are you now without your technology? probably dead in a couple of days! but with the "old age" or as you call it caveman skills you would be able to survive.

[Midnitemo]

my bobs carry the same just more of in mine....everything duplicated!...unfortunately my team are for the most part anti...hence there going to need every aid they can get and as much reference material as i/they can carry , you state knowledge decreases weight , so just what are you leaving out then? everyone will have a map and button or small silva compass round there neck with primary and secondary emergency rv's on....depending on how they've become seperated will decide which rv you will make for ... just lost then the primary ... bumped then the secondary which will be coded as something much less appealling

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whilst none of em fancy prepping they all like to shoot and my group won't be short on firepower.

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and then there are caches...one in the ground already and one going in tommorrow

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you're saying the more you know the less you need to carry and you're taking a kilo out of your bob because of the new knowledge....it sounds like what you've discarded you probably never needed anywayjudging by your current bob inventory.

[bigpaul]

well I wish you all the best with your set up, personally i'll be learning all the skills I can -to increase my survivability rate- even middle ages and "caveman" skills, I shant be relying on modern equipment to save me, sure I have "stuff" but like I said before, EVERYTHING will eventually break or wear out and having the knowledge to repair/make new/ or go without will be the key. even stores of food will be used up in a short time.

[Midnitemo]

I have no doubts about my own abilities , i know what i'm capable of , and i still would prefer the basic modern kit because its labour saving and dependable and can be operated competentley by muppets , buy enough of the right decent quality stuff , spread it amongst your group and cache it and it will last many many many years...i'm sure when the shit hits people will sit up and pay attention and i may well be relaying some of what i know but until then, the right kit is the way to go for my muppets.

[Scythe13]

(14 December 2013, 12:29)Midnitemo Wrote: you're saying the more you know the less you need to carry and you're taking a kilo out of your bob because of the new knowledge....it sounds like what you've discarded you probably never needed anywayjudging by your current bob inventory.

To answer that, I'll bring back my initial post.

(1 December 2013, 00:45)Scythe13 Wrote: It's interesting that my increase in skills is exactly what is allowing me to do this. One of my survival books (Ray Mears Bushcraft) has been removed, as have a couple of small items.

The total weight loss is pretty nice. My bag weighs about 1kg less now, and it's all because of my increase in knowledge.

To cut a huge conversation really short, if you want to lessen your gear, look into learning about how to use what you have better, but also to use what's naturally around you.

Truth be told, I could cut around 75% of my bag weight, by just carrying a little food, a tarp, and a knife, but like you, I enjoy the ability to do it all quickly with no real effort.

The fact of the matter is, as much as I agree with a large part of what you're saying, what would you do if you tripped and the tent poles got broken? What about if your tent material got ripped because someone tripped over a guyline in the night while carrying a knife? Your water purification tablets get stolen by an angry otter? The gas in your cooker runs out? It's raining and you can't find any dry wood to burn?

[Midnitemo]

Shit happens! deal with it and move on....improvise adapt and overcome.....there are answers to all what if's, it's just common sense problem solving in the main....sadly a great chunk of our youth seem to have had a common sense bypass but i'm sure when it gets down to it they will get upto speed pretty sharpish or suffer plenty of difficult and uncomfortable times.

[bigpaul]

I shouldn't sweat it guys, once the SHTF people will either have to learn bloody quick or die of ignorance, I'm expecting a large "die-off" as the sheeple will quickly succumb without mains electric, water and supermarket food! pretty soon the population numbers will drop to pre industrial levels.

[Timelord]

It's nice to have the good kit to help survive.
Its nice to have skills for when you don't.
Both together is even better!
What is the argument here?
There isn't one...