Exploring JOHN and PAULS views sensibly

[Steve]

Lammas is just up the road from me, a very interesting project. They offer a tour, although I haven't gone yet.

Bing maps has an aerial photo on their maps page, search SA34 0YD, they've crammed a lot into just a few fields.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?q=...ORM=HDRSC4

[Devonian]

(17 December 2014, 18:35)bigpaul Wrote: according to UK govt own report "during an emergency only 10-20% of people will demonstrate RATIONAL THOUGHT,

Uuuumm, I wonder what % of the UK population are Politicians and civil servants????

The Government surely wouldn't see themselves being the only rational thinkers - surely not

[MaryN]

I wonder what they mean by "rational thought". Running like hell in the opposite direction at the sight of a politician perhaps?

[Tibbs735]

I did a review for a book recently that at least partially addresses this thread:
http://forum.survivaluk.net/showthread.php?tid=7396

"Easy to read, popular science book, it is written for the survivor of a catastrophe who has made it through the initial crash, and is now with some others or alone, but is enjoying the "grace period" on scavenged or stored supplies before having to truly start from scratch. Dartnell proceeds to break down and explain critical areas to start work at rebuilding a reasonably advanced civilization (by reasonably advanced I mean gunpowder and printing press level.) Each of these areas is a project that could be attempted by any reasonably competent prepper, e.g. making lime, or extracting potassium nitrate from soil."

Lets take an OTT worst case scenario, just before a very bad winter, total nuclear war breaks out between the major global powers, most nations (EMP included so power grid and some vehicles and electronic gear destroyed) along with a bioweapons release, something like Spanish flu again...

When spring arrives, focusing on the UK, most areas will just be empty of humans, with the resources left over from civilisation simply decaying without providing the "grace period" that Dartnell talks about (e.g. being able to scavenge fuel, generators, food etc.)
The scattered survivors are a mix of the prepared, the lucky and the predatory gangs (the lines being blurred depending on the group or individual.) Each group/individual will then be either settled farmer, a hunter-gatherer, sitting on an enormous but dwindling stock of supplies or somewhere in between.

Most of us will never be prepared for the scenario I just to described; it's like opening a submarine hatch 1000 meters below sea level, there's just too many things to cover.

I had a conversation with a family friend from London, explaining how I was was interested in agriculture and self sufficiency without breaking OPSEC. She seemed to think I wanted to live naked in a cave with no outside resources, saying "But you can't make books or tools" as if she'd discovered a massive flaw in my direction in life. The totally self sufficient lifestyle of hunting and gathering as a small band has it merits, but it leaves no history to read, and we'll never colonise space that way...

[bigpaul]

(17 December 2014, 21:58)Tibbs735 Wrote: Each group/individual will then be either settled farmer, a hunter-gatherer, sitting on an enormous but dwindling stock of supplies or somewhere in between.



The totally self sufficient lifestyle of hunting and gathering as a small band has it merits, but it leaves no history to read, and we'll never colonise space that way...

the general thinking is: city or country renewable food will be provided through stored supplies, gardening, raising livestock, hunting and gathering, scrounging, purchasing or bartering. I have always said the smaller the band or group the fewer of each of the above will be needed, living a simpler life has its positive side. and who the heck wants to colonise space? haven't we messed up this planet enough? do we need to do the same to others?

[NorthernRaider]

Planet A population 5 billion = everyone eats and has some place to live, planet A thrives.
Planet B population 9 billion = not enough food and not enough places to live, planet B withers and dies.

[bigpaul]

lets not go off into realms of fantasy, can we keep it UK specific please.

[Tartar Horde]

Not really NR as you get better at knapping you can start to make points that are very similar in weight and form, it's just experience and knowledge of your material. But you are correct in a way; that is points made from metals can be far more consistent with the tools to process them, but they will take you longer to make from scratch.

[bigpaul]

(17 December 2014, 19:32)Devonian Wrote:

(17 December 2014, 18:35)bigpaul Wrote: according to UK govt own report "during an emergency only 10-20% of people will demonstrate RATIONAL THOUGHT,

Uuuumm, I wonder what % of the UK population are Politicians and civil servants????
I think the reference was to "the masses" in any emergency DEV, no doubt there are still tunnels under Whitehall that the politicians will retire to in a catastrophic event.
The Government surely wouldn't see themselves being the only rational thinkers - surely not

[NorthernRaider]

""RE: Exploring JOHN and PAULS views sensibly
Not really NR as you get better at knapping you can start to make points that are very similar in weight and form, it's just experience and knowledge of your material. But you are correct in a way; that is points made from metals can be far more consistent with the tools to process them, but they will take you longer to make from scratch. ""

As always TH I bow to your expertise on these issues, Remember how I mentioned the book where they beat copper coins into arrow heads, One American chap said he had a device that was like a flywheel driven die press, you hand cranked it and it could reshape coins into other things, (I think we have all seen them in fairgrounds where you pay 50 pence and put a two pence coin into a receiver, turned the handle and its squashes the coin into something else) He said he could very easily make up a simple die and punch for that type of machine to stamp out either push on arrow heads or alternatively squash em flat into a two bladed broadhead design. Food for thought?