Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty

[bigpaul]

I'd rather have 3 dogs than 6 humans on guard, dogs can hear things well outside the human hearing.

[Sunna]

what do you think

[Scythe13]

Agreed, dogs would be brilliant. But not necessarily subtle, nor capable of relaying infomation.

Putting a guard dog with a trainer would make sense.

One thing though, a dog is usually a close up warning. A person can use binoculars and the alike, so their increased effective range is greater than that of a dog.

Just playing devil's advocate.

[Devonian]

Has anyone tried to put an estimate on the number of bodies that would be needed to fulfil the roles of Lookouts; Sentries and Guards?

Given that you may need guards/lookouts etc on the perimeter at say 4 (or more) different points, and even then do you need more than one person at each point; plus then at least one person back at/in the property etc to rely communications and to warn the others who are not on duty at the time.

Then how often/how many shifts are needed throughout the day/night? 2 hour shifts for example have been suggested.

So with 4 points with 2 people, plus one in the property, means you have need 9 people per shift, based on 2 hour shifts over say just 12 hours of the night means you need 6 x 9 people = 54 people!!

Even if you only had just 1 person at the 4 points plus 1 in the property, with each working 4 hour shifts, within a 12 hour period, you would still need 15 people just to manage your overnight guard duties!!

So this quickly adds up to a lot of people if this is to be carried out day in day out.

Therefore is you want to be able to operate with guards and sentries etc, you really are committing yourself to operating within a "large" highly visible group.

Maybe I'm looking at this in the wrong way, but I'd be interested to see what resources others feel are needed to set up a workable system in this respect.

[Midnitemo]

I can only relay my intended plan and that is while bugged in all sleeping will be upstairs leaving one person on watch downstairs for a max 2 hours , we are trying to remain stealthy so there will be no smoking, there is a position in my hallway where all three access doors on the ground floor are visible,the person stagged on May use a stool in this position to monitor the access points(Don't want them to comfy) there will be tasks being performed throughout the night at varying times mainly water collection and waste disposal.

[Devonian]

(28 May 2014, 14:16)Midnitemo Wrote: I can only relay my intended plan and that is while bugged in all sleeping will be upstairs leaving one person on watch downstairs for a max 2 hours , we are trying to remain stealthy so there will be no smoking, there is a position in my hallway where all three access doors on the ground floor are visible,the person stagged on May use a stool in this position to monitor the access points(Don't want them to comfy) there will be tasks being performed throughout the night at varying times mainly water collection and waste disposal.

Yes, going back to my earlier post, that is far more realistic and is likely to be what happens in my opinion, rather than the idea posting lookouts down the road on the approaches to the property and sentries at the entrances etc - or for that matter the American Frontier analogy....

I don't think any of us are going to end up in Afghan style compounds or wilderness forts, with large groups where such tactics could be employed.

We are far more likely to be in our existing homes, or those of Friends/Family in suburbia, with many others around us in similar situations.....

[bigpaul]

yes, its going to be something more akin to "The Survivors" (in an old house) rather than something like "The Alamo"(in an old mission or fort).

[Mortblanc]

One can not set a "standard" since each situation will be different. Proper location and posting of guards is done as pare of each individual defensive plan.

I suppose I have a different concept about this with both military and historical backgrounds. I have seen the effects of lax security in person, and I have studied the results historically.

The result of lax security is dead people!

In a dangerous or crisis situation life takes on a new rhythm. Going to bed at dark and sleeping soundly through the night will be a thing of the past. There is a daytime life and a nighttime life. Night time life will involve being up and moving around several times during the hours of darkness. Daytime may include catching a nap when there is nothing to do and you know you will be on guard for half the night.

The fatigue of guard duty is the reason it is dismissed so often and a group becomes vulnerable. It is difficult, but it is absolutely mandatory that security be maintained. Yep, you may get tired, guess what? Your optional alternative is DEAD!

It is the end of the world, you are not supposed to be comfortable and well rested!

As for the numbers of people needed; 4 corners X 3 shifts ...

That sounds necessary but may not be. If you can deprive the access to one or two sides of the facility, use solar powered video, trip wires and alarm systems one person can monitor the entire facility.

Do not use more people on guard than are absolutely necessary. It will destroy morale instantly. The more people you have on guard the less each person feels their individual responsibility. The inevitable question will be asked, "why do we all have to be here?" If that question is being asked the answer is probably that they don't really have to be there and fewer guards would work.

Dogs are a "force multiplier"!! The presence of dogs is not an option! In a crisis you leave the realm of "I don't like them, I don't want them" or "they are too difficult to feed." One dog awake means two people get to sleep.

In almost every crisis area on the face of the globe the people find the meanest and most vicious dogs they can acquire and they chain them to the front door at night! The first recommendation of every police department when someone needs added security is "get a dog".

A small yelpy little nescience of a creature has a better sense of smell and hearing than any human alive! All they have to do is alert you to a suspected presence, not fight the battle for you. When they alert EVERYONE is up and awake!

My experience in hostile situations was that guard duty was not considered a burden in units with good morale that had bonded as a group. Dozing off on guard was considered a personal failure, something getting past you was a reflection on your feeling of responsibility to your group.

You were not standing guard, you were protecting your friends! I would feel even stronger about that if it were family.

And you do it every night, 365 nights a year !!!

[Devonian]

(28 May 2014, 15:38)Mortblanc Wrote: If you can deprive the access to one or two sides of the facility, use solar powered video, trip wires and alarm systems one person can monitor the entire facility.

Dogs are a "force multiplier"!! The presence of dogs is not an option! In a crisis you leave the realm of "I don't like them, I don't want them" or "they are too difficult to feed." One dog awake means two people get to sleep.

This is exactly what I was meaning earlier about working smarter, rather than working hard!

[Sunna]

i have only worked with a guard dog a few times each time a gsd not properly trained ,ok for barking and looking good but try keeping one quiet if you dont want to give your position away .
as most of you are talking about family pets not trained like a police /army dog.
if you want to use a dog get training now while you have the time.