Debating the debaters

[NorthernRaider]

Welfare breeds dependency that's why the Soviets and Com Chis encouraged it so much.

[bigpaul]

but are there the jobs out there? I don't believe there are, and even if they were I don't believe 100% employment is possible, there will always be people unemployed, and as we all know there are people who are just plain unemployable. I was unemployed for a long time and I just couldn't get a job no matter how many I applied for. I was self employed for many years but had to give it up due to marital breakdown and on going housing issues, so its not always a case of just "getting off your arse".

[Devonian]

(4 April 2014, 18:47)bigpaul Wrote: but are there the jobs out there?

Of course there are!

The Latvians; Polish; Romanians; etc etc despite popular belief do not come over here "for the benefits", I am not saying that they do not take advantage of the system, but that is another discussion. They come over here to work, and credit where credit is due, most of them actually do work, and work bloody hard.

The problem is many Brits (especially the younger generations, including those my age) are lazy and are not prepared to either do the work that is available; or alternatively do not want to work for the wages that are being paid. The Eastern Europeans do not have the same hang ups.

British companies only employ the Eastern Europeans because they are happy to do the work, every single employer would prefer the work to go to a Brit, but the Brits aren't interested.

So instead of Labour going on about increasing wages all the time; they should look at decreasing benefits so people are better of working than being on benefits.

[NorthernRaider]

Up here the schools and colleges used to work out and set their holiday times by the years tatty harvesting projection cos when the crops were ready the youngsters used to go and make some money tatty picking, Same with the Strawberry harvest etc.

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Can anyone name any socialist achievements that did not go wrong or cost to much or are totally abused ? or have the blood of millions on their hands?

[Midnitemo]

Back in the late 80's early 90's I spent some time in Singapore...the unemployed were employed by the state...they put you to work for your benefits....twas an incredibly clean place I can tell you.

[Devonian]

(4 April 2014, 19:19)Midnitemo Wrote: Back in the late 80's early 90's I spent some time in Singapore...the unemployed were employed by the state...they put you to work for your benefits....twas an incredibly clean place I can tell you.

I think everyone should work for their benefits and so at least 3 days or 24 hours work a week, anything less and the benefits should be stopped unless they are hospitalised etc...

[NorthernRaider]

I 100% agree from litter picking, lollipop duty, running after school clubs, growing food on community plots for use in schools etc make em work for their benefits. Indeed we could use trade unionists to unblock fat bergs from sewers and sifting sewage effluents by hand

[bigpaul]

bollocks, people like me (and you all) paid national INSURANCE so that when we became unemployed(through no fault of our own) we could claim unemployment benefit, sure its been buggered about by successive governments so its no longer fit for purpose, working for benefit should be ONLY for those people who have NEVER paid a penny into the system, like the school leavers and the immigrants. and immigrants DO come here for the benefits, sure a lot of them do work and work hard, but there are also those that come here solely for the benefits(and the pick pocketing and the shop lifting and the begging) like the ROMA.

[NorthernRaider]

BP the problem lies not in ordering people who pay a fortune in tax and NI then claim dole for a short while til they get back on their feet its the immense numbers who make it almost a career choice, BBC north recently reported one family of 14 from Cumbria demanding a bigger house NO ONE in the family had EVER had a job, and there are plenty more like that.

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No benefit should be payable for more than 6 months in any five year period cept for pensions.

[bigpaul]

(5 April 2014, 11:55)NorthernRaider Wrote: BP the problem lies not in ordering people who pay a fortune in tax and NI then claim dole for a short while til they get back on their feet its the immense numbers who make it almost a career choice, BBC north recently reported one family of 14 from Cumbria demanding a bigger house NO ONE in the family had EVER had a job, and there are plenty more like that.

yep, that's the sort of people I'm on about, the so called "superdads" and their forever pregnant OH's, these should be made to work for benefits as they have never paid one penny into the system.