Sustainable Guns.

[Keith]

I own modern guns for defence & shooting ferals, but I hunt with a flintlock muzzle-loading fusil. In a SHTF situation, there is the risk of running out of ammo for modern firearms if they are used for defence & for hunting, especially if you have to bug out away from home. Also there is the question of repair if one should malfunction.
My flintlock smoothbore is versatile & easy to repair. I carry spare parts when trekking, & long term if I should run out of spare parts I can turn my flintlock into a matchlock & continue using it. However, in all the years I have used muzzleloaders, I have only had two occasions when the hammer on a flintlock was not throwing sparks as well as it should. This was easily fixed by re-hardening the hammer in the camp fire.
https://s19.postimg.org/6fe51inxf/Fusil.jpg
My .62 caliber smoothbore flintlock fusil.
https://s19.postimg.org/llflepokj/FLINTL...LE_006.jpg
My .32 caliber flintlock rifle with double set triggers.
https://s19.postimg.org/xe3aop8df/PISTOL_4-1.jpg
My .70 caliber flintlock pistol with a left hand lock.
Advantages of a Flintlock Muzzle-loader.
1) Ammo is less expensive than a modern equivalent caliber firearm.
2) The smoothbore is very versatile, being able to digest round ball, bird shot, & buckshot, or any combination of two of these (can also use minies).
3) The fusil is lighter to carry than a modern equivalent sized gun.
4) You can vary the load if needs be.
5) The smoothbore will digest other projectiles besides lead.
6) Lead can be retrieved from downed game & remoulded with a simple mould & lead ladle. This means that you can carry less lead, & more of the lighter gunpowder.
7) You can make your own gunpowder.
8) You can use the lock to make fire without the need for gunpowder.
9) You can use gunpowder for gunpowder tinder fire lighting if needs be.
10) IF the lock should malfunction (these are very robust & it is not likely) you can easily repair it if you are carrying a few spare springs & a few simple tools.
11) If you do not have any spare parts & the lock malfunctions, you can easily convert it to a tinderlock or matchlock & continue using it.
12) You do not need a reloader, brass shells, caps, or primers. The latter have been known to break down in damp conditions or if they are stored for too long.
13) Wadding for ball or shot is available from natural plant materials or homemade leather or rawhide.
14) Less chance of being affected by future ammunition control legislation.
15) Gunpowder is easily obtainable providing you have a muzzle-loader registered in your name regardless of caliber (NSW)
16) A .32 caliber flintlock rifle is more powerful than a .22 rimfire, less expensive to feed, more accurate over a greater distance, able to take small & medium sized game, & other than not being able to use shot (unless it is smoothbore), it has all the attributes of the other flintlocks.
17) Damage from a .62 caliber-.75 caliber pistol or long arm is in the extreme. Wounded prey is unlikely to escape.
18) By using buck & ball you are unlikely to miss your target. This load is capable of taking out more than one target.
19) There is less kick-back to a muzzle-loading gun.
20) Antique Flintlock muzzle-loading guns do not require a license, registration, or a permit to purchase in NSW Australia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar8Jk0hFNXQ

[Skean Dhude]

Very interesting. I must confess I have looked at this in the UK but it didn't go too far. I think your list brings home the advantages though and I'll have a look what the licensing issue is here. In the UK we have a nanny state pretty much like Oz and it could be similar.

[Keith]

(21 July 2017, 09:27)Skean Dhude Wrote: Very interesting. I must confess I have looked at this in the UK but it didn't go too far. I think your list brings home the advantages though and I'll have a look what the licensing issue is here. In the UK we have a nanny state pretty much like Oz and it could be similar.

Well I know for a fact that there are 17th & 18th century living history groups in the UK
& the members are carrying muzzle-loading guns. Not 100% sure, but I think Greens Rangers might now be a part of New France Old England. If you want to learn some good skills these would be the people to get in with.
Keith.

[harrypalmer]

I've seen you Keith on another forum somewhere.

Personally I prefer more accurate weapons.

[Mortblanc]

I have done the buckskinning and reenacting thing here in the US for 50 years and I agree that if you want to attain a skill set beyond belief that is one way to go. What we did two or three weekends each month is now considered extreme survival training.

Add to that the tasks of making ones gear, clothing, edged tools and some of us building our own firearms and it became a life changing experience.

However, there is a reason all of that gear is considered obsolete. That is because it is obsolete. Knowing how to use such technology is great but depending on it as first line gear is not the best direction for training or funds expenditure.

BTW, I have already lived twice the years of life expectancy one had when using that technology. It is not "better" that what we have today. The number of people that froze, starved and died of deficiency diseases and things we cure with OTC meds made old men and women strange and respected individuals.

[LAC]

Interesting Keith. Do you or have you ever used crossbows for hunting?

[Keith]

(21 July 2017, 11:05)harrypalmer Wrote: I've seen you Keith on another forum somewhere.

Personally I prefer more accurate weapons.

Either you have not used a muzzle-loading gun Harry or what you mean is longer distance & not accuracy. In either case you would be wrong. There are accurate long distance muzzle-loading sniper rifles & even the average rifle is very accurate.
Keith.

[Keith]

(21 July 2017, 17:46)Mortblanc Wrote: I have done the buckskinning and reenacting thing here in the US for 50 years and I agree that if you want to attain a skill set beyond belief that is one way to go. What we did two or three weekends each month is now considered extreme survival training.

Add to that the tasks of making ones gear, clothing, edged tools and some of us building our own firearms and it became a life changing experience.

However, there is a reason all of that gear is considered obsolete. That is because it is obsolete. Knowing how to use such technology is great but depending on it as first line gear is not the best direction for training or funds expenditure.

BTW, I have already lived twice the years of life expectancy one had when using that technology. It is not "better" that what we have today. The number of people that froze, starved and died of deficiency diseases and things we cure with OTC meds made old men and women strange and respected individuals.

I don't think we are talking about modern medicine versus 18th century medical practices. And we are not talking modern military gear with re-supply. I will go with 18th century gear & a modern medical kit any day over modern gadgets.
Keith.

[Keith]

(21 July 2017, 21:34)LAC Wrote: Interesting Keith. Do you or have you ever used crossbows for hunting?

I did have the opportunity to use one many years ago LAC, but only on targets, not for hunting. I would certainly not dismiss its use for hunting in a survival situation, though I would prefer to use a traditional self bow.
Keith.

[harrypalmer]

"Either you have not used a muzzle-loading gun Harry or what you mean is longer distance & not accuracy. In either case you would be wrong. There are accurate long distance muzzle-loading sniper rifles & even the average rifle is very accurate.
Keith. "

You'd be surprised at the range of weapons I've fired both during my Army career and with a very good friend who is 'well into' black powder/muzzle loading weapons (he uses modern rifles for hunting). The oldest rifle I have owned was an Enfield SMLE from WW1, I would say that was a lot more accurate than anything you use.