What states allow hunting with dogs?

[bigpaul]

yes but they all have smart phone and a tv the size of a living room wall dont they? and they all have foreign holidays which are all on the credit card. but no food in the cupboard, talk about get their priorities right.

[Straight Shooter]

I was trying to describe the dwindling disappearance of the middle class I suppose BP ......as regards smart phones and smart televisions .....welcome to 2021 ! ....most can’t live without the bloody things ...you see that everywhere you go , just because we do not , does not make any difference at all , we have become the minority my friend ......we have lived through many situations good and not so good so we have seen it all before ....the upcoming crop have not ! It’s just their turn , as history repeats itself ! .

[bigpaul]

you know what they say SS " those that fail to learn the lessons of history are destined to repeat them".
planning ahead just comes as second nature to me, this modern life is very fragile and the systems on which most rely are getting more fragile by the moment, as recent events have shown, but most people are oblivious, until the shelves are empty that is.

[Mortblanc]

I differ in opinion slightly to both of you.

I do not see the present situation ever presented before in history. Never has the entire globe continued to give to their people even after bankruptcy was inevitable.

The closest thing I can relate to the present is the economic situation at the end of WW2, when England had borrowed so much in the course of the war that the nation was at a debt ratio of 150%+, and wound up paying on the debt until 2006.

That was the cause of the "austerity" after the war that no one under 60 can remember, or believes actually happened. It was the grandchildren of the people that fought WW2 that finished that debt.

That was the reason rationing went on until 1957, petrol was taxed out the wazoo to the point that the average person could not afford to drive, consumer products were impossible to get past import tariffs and your tax rate went to near 80%.

"Austerity" was engineered to keep the UK producing, and its purchasing isolated to UK made products with restrictions on importation of consumer goods so every penny stayed at home to be taxed for payment of the national debt.

The point being that EVERY nation on earth has been thrown into that same situation by covid policies and needless payments to the people to stave off collapse by revolution. We have been given our grandchildren's entire lifetime tax payment in a 2 year period.

Now I see and hear people talking about not being able to make do without the government 20 pound per week payments!!! They made do before covid without them, they can get by without them now. It is simply proof of the old saying that once a program starts there will be no stop to it.

Every economy in the world is presently bankrupt. The entire globe is running on monopoly money. I know that has been a cry for decades, but it currently is unsurpassed in truth.

The U.S is 106% negative to GNP and we are borrowing to pay the interest on our debt, Japan is over 200% negative. (most countries default at 165%+-) The World Bank has suspended collection of debt from most of the 3rd world so as to not force them to default.

How will it be paid for? The only way it can be done, in your case, is moving the VAT to 100%, taxing income at 80% and increasing import tariffs accordingly.

In the case of the U.S. it now costs nearly $29,000 to dock and dispatch each container at port. That cost 2 years ago was $2,000. All of that is increased tariff. It is also one of the reasons container ships are floating off shore waiting to land or have turned around and returned to Asia without unloading. And we are going to have to realize that massive tax increases are in our futures.

Before you say that the people will not stand for it consider that "the people" have no alternative. Each nation will soon be demanding their due from every other nation and if payment can not be made or scheduled then resources and assets will be seized and the international bailiffs are inside your borders looking about for things to haul away.

It will not matter who you vote for or which party is in charge when the money bucket runs dry, all credit has been shut off and the World Bank is knocking at the door. All promises will be lies, because there is nothing to give.

The U.S. is presently in a situation where our president, in his state of dementia, is continuing to press for "social reform" when even the most radical members of his own party are voting down his give-away programs because there simply is no more money.

That is a new first experience for our liberal party. Never in their memory have we actually run out of money. There has always been more money somewhere!

Their scream is usually to "tax the rich!" "Tax the corporations!" But they are finding themselves in the position that they need the rich to fund their election runs, and they have been warned off that resource. The major corporations also fund and support a huge part of our election machine. That as the basis of our last phony election. Taxing small business is also a bit risky when the economy is diving like a scared whale.

There is only one seemingly inevitable outcome. That is a massive World War that erases every economy, reduces the world population by at least 50%, and sets the life expectations of everyone left back to the level of being happy with mere subsistence.

Before you say "Never!" think back to the early 1960s, when there were still bombed out ruins in the major cities of England, no one you knew owned a car, the Beatles could not buy a Fender guitar because of tariffs and were complaining about paying 80% tax on personal income.

And now you look back on that era as "the good old days"!

[Talon]

Very sobering words Mort . I think that post pretty much sets out our future . Very worrying times ahead for us all .

[Straight Shooter]

Excellent post MB ! .......you smashed it pal .

[bigpaul]

yes, the 50s and 60s were "the good old days", I was brought up back then and people were much happier back then, we didnt have much but we had what we needed, we didnt have the blatant consumerism we have now and whats more people werent in debt, if you wanted something you saved up for it, by the time you had saved enough you knew it was what you needed not just something that would be thrown away tomorrrow, and we didnt have all this damned plastic waste in the rivers, in the seas and in the countryside.
yes Mort, that definitely was THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!!

[Mortblanc]

No Paul it was not the "good old days". That is just the point. Nostalgia is a poor replacement for historical fact.

Want to know why Brits shop by the day? It is because in 1960 80% of the population had no refrigerators in their homes. There was no way to keep food day to day. Old habits die hard.

Grand ma shopped every day, didn't she, and so did Mom, and it is no real problem to stop on the way home from work and pick something up. And Grand ma had all day to simmer a soup on the stove in the two up-two down flat with the toilet in the back garden. She did not put in an 8-10 hour day at work. Ready made meals are the cost of having a two income family.

Why did Brits "save up" before they made a purchase? It was because consumer credit was illegal! Most of those "dreamed of purchases never took place. You dreamed, you planned, you talked, but you did not buy. You simply did not make enough to have surplus funds for anything over survival. Another government mandate to keep spending down and money available for taxation.

People did not "save up" to buy automobiles or homes! That is an illusion. Fuel was still rationed. If you owned a car you could not get fuel for it. Homes and cars did not become purchases for the common man until rationing ended and the laws on credit changed in the late 1960s.

Most of the cleanup of war destruction was done and the new "infrastructure" of motorways plowed through the slums and tenements that had been the shame of British cities for centuries. New housing developments sold small homes to a new middle class, and provided high rise council flats to poor and working class families. It was the first time many of them had seen a toilet that was not "out back" or cooked in a full kitchen with fridge.

And waste? It was not plastic for sure! Plastic technology cost money to import. Your trash was glass bottles, tins and waxed paper and a stew of sewage pumped directly into the rivers.

Your pollution was industrial toxins pouring from untreated plant sewers going at full production with no environmental checks or health and safety laws. Here in the states we had rivers that actually caught on fire and burned uncontrollably back in "the good old days". There was hardly a fish fit to eat in British waters. Over here we had a Lake called Lake Erie. It was dead as the Dead Sea. Not a living thing in it!

While your industry stagnated in 19th century technology Germany and Japan built new tech, new factories and trained a new work force that accepted change, efficiency and improvement. By the 1970s the British steel and motorcycle industry was gone, unable to compete, then the automobile industry was gone, killed by mismanagement and trade union sabotage.

That is why your Vauxhall is designed by Opel, and made in Spain, then imported and branded with a British sticker that was printed in Indonesia. Nothing in it is British until you sit your British butt in the seat.

And immigration worries were not due to the influx of new and strange people. The emigration problem was referred to as the "brain drain" because the best and brightest were leaving GB at an alarming rate, headed for better futures and higher living standards in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the U.S.

Why not to the rest of the Empire? Well that was gone. When colonies could not be fully exploited, and they certainly could not with the modern media at work, they cost more to maintain than they produced. GB could not afford to support colonies and also pay their debts.

Right now, today, as bad as you think it is, is probably better than any day you had from 1929 to 1965.

There is no "Great Depression" fully declared. There are no bombs falling from the sky. There is no watch down on the beach incase of invasion. There is no rationing of food, clothing or fuel. You can borrow money and buy a car, home or that camper van you have your eye on. You go to the toilet without leaving the house. You keep your beer in the fridge now, ending centuries of drinking warm cider. And you have the NHS and all the other safety nets society provides.

Really? Do you want to go back to 1957?

[Straight Shooter]

So which country gained the most ? And why ? In the same time frame M B .......where has all your industry and manufacturing ended up ...and why ? ....not that I am challenging history .....thing is history is a constant moving object .....that can be thrown in many directions .

[Straight Shooter]

Maybe for all the wrong reasons we were happier back then with our lot although life was harder and limited ....appreciation of the outdoors was enjoyed to the fullest , simple things were held dear ....pass me downs were highlights no matter what it was .....were were broke but very happy and so was everyone else.....in our village at least .