We Need Money

[Timelord]

Scythe, I think you are looking at this from a modern mindset. As BP said, the human race got along just fine for most of its history without the need for money or currency. The thing is we now have so much crap that simple barter may well not work. Although much of this crap will be irrelevent. We will most likely be back to the simple basics that matter.
In a more primitive situation, then those that are not productive will not do well. It is ok having the charitable notion of supporting people with no skills by paying them money, but will that money be accepted elsewhere? Would you accept money for access to your valuable supplies or kit? On the other hand, if they did some useful labour that benefitted you, then maybe it would be worth a slice of your supplies. Money is only any good if people are interested in accepting it in exchange for their valuables. Otherwise you could be the one left with a handful of patterned metal discs.
Would it not be better that the useless skilled people had a job change and were put to work on the land or any other community project in exchange for food & board and a stake in the rebuilding of society. They probably wouldn't survive without a common goal and may turn into raiders or worse.
In history, money was only really useful if society could produce a surplus of commodities. Without a surplus there was no need for a system of storing wealth. In Earlier Roman times, soldiers wages were paid in Salt. It was a valuable and useful resource. Value of labour & resources does not have to be represented by "money", which is of no practical value on its own.
Most tribal cultures do not use money. There is no requirement for it. The Red Indians did not use it and traded with the European settlers quite happily.
By having people bartering goods and labour you actually forge closer bonds & responsibility between them. Money can be manipulated and used to cause grievance. It can also be used to draw wealth out of society - much as today and to instigate inflation to the benefit of the few.
We are indoctrinated into the money system, but it is not all it appears to offer. TL

[bigpaul]

even in modern times some places have set up a moneyless system, in Totnes and Torrington they set up a TimeBank, 1 hours work was 1 hours work no matter what it was, if a plumber did 1 hours work on your house, then he could get a Gardener to do 1 hours work for him, then the Gardeners wife could go to the Hairdresser for 1 hour etc.etc. no money changed hands it was all done on how many hours WORK was done.

[mikebratcher69]

(1 April 2012, 09:36)bigpaul Wrote: even in modern times some places have set up a moneyless system, in Totnes and Torrington they set up a TimeBank, 1 hours work was 1 hours work no matter what it was, if a plumber did 1 hours work on your house, then he could get a Gardener to do 1 hours work for him, then the Gardeners wife could go to the Hairdresser for 1 hour etc.etc. no money changed hands it was all done on how many hours WORK was done.

Thats not a bad system that B.P. still open to a bit of abuse by people "dragging it out" so as long as youve got the conciencious type doing it it should run fine. Damn good idea that though.

[Scythe13]

As people, we've been using money (coins and the alike) since around 1000BC.

Civilisation has used coins or money (China for example didn't start off using coins) since it existed. People existed before a civilised society, so that's the aspect I'm looking at.

[bigpaul]

money is completely useless UNLESS you have extra to sell, if you only have enough for yourself and your group then you wont have any excess to sell, whether you exchange it for barter or some form of money is irrelevant.

[Scythe13]

(1 April 2012, 10:19)bigpaul Wrote: money is completely useless UNLESS you have extra to sell, if you only have enough for yourself and your group then you wont have any excess to sell, whether you exchange it for barter or some form of money is irrelevant.

I get what you're saying BP. Remember my definition of money. Money is, in itself, an item of value, e.g. gold and silver. Humans have always seen value in gold and silver. Go back to the times of Babylon, the Mayans, Ancient Greece, Romans, Chinese or any civilisation through history whether they still exist, or not, as humans we have always seen a value in precious metals. Those metals are, in themselves, valuable.

It is the value of the metals that is why they have been used as money. Once someone places a piece of silver or gold into someone else's hands, that person then has the capability to transfer that wealth to someone else in exchange for something else. In this way, precious metals are the perfect way to transfer goods and do business. Promisary notes (bank notes we currently have) are only paper, and they carry only the strength of the promise. They will be traded until the strength of the promise is zero.

However, once a coin goes into circulation, it can remain in circulation.

Granted I am seeing it from a pretty modern-ish view. However, money is a much better system of commerce than barter, even though money can work along side barter.

[bigpaul]

gold and silver are only valuable because someone has set a value on them, if they hadnt they would just be a naturally occuring material, personally speaking post SHTF i am more interested in putting food in my belly than holding onto something that in itself may hold no value to me. its only worth what someone is willing to exchange for it.

[mikebratcher69]

(1 April 2012, 10:47)bigpaul Wrote: gold and silver are only valuable because someone has set a value on them, if they hadnt they would just be a naturally occuring material, personally speaking post SHTF i am more interested in putting food in my belly than holding onto something that in itself may hold no value to me. its only worth what someone is willing to exchange for it.

I wholeheartedly agree, If somebody offered me gold for a chicken I'd tell them to bugger off, you cant eat gold.

[bigpaul]

yep, that was what i was trying to say.

[mikebratcher69]

I see money as a disease people would have to get over fast.