when does a preper become a raider

[The Local Ned]

Raider , Looter , Scavenger.....thief , outlaw.

Depends upon the outlook of the person(s) involved and the context of the situation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Raiding , to me - is an aggressive/violent act to deprive someone else of their property whilst they are in active ownership.

Looting/theft , is an act of theft which has taken place , it is a needless opportunistic act done for (usually) monetary gain only.

Scavenging , is an act that involves the use/removal of property that has been abandoned or has been discarded or left behind by its owners.

==================================
Difference between looting and scavenging ?
==================================
looting ( theft ) imho involves items taken from a point of sale that is or recently had been active.

Scavenging is when it is apparent that the items have been discarded or abandoned or no longer required by their (ex)owners.

Raiding , is a planned act of violently stealing anothers property.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We are all preparing as best we can , we may not have all the bases covered , all the time.......at some point our plans may grind to a halt for the lack of a single item.

Can any of us honestly say that - if our OWN lives are in the balance , perhaps our loved ones too , and we have tried all reasonable avenues of acquiring the thing(s) we need, in as fair a manner as possible - that we wouldn't resort to raiding ? What do we do ? rely on others charity or goodwishes that may not happen ?

Humans are animals , when all law is gone then we will resort to the tribal/pack mentality , only the strong will survive , the strong don't usually ask politely first......so if we require things and it has came to the last resort - we will ALL raid to survive , if we don't = we won't.

[bigpaul]

the trouble with raiding is....you might find the other person is better armed!!

[grumpy old man]

if you don't raid and need some thing you will die?
if you raid and win you live but could also lose
a 50 / 50 change is better than no chance
but don't worry to much or wonderful leaders will save us lol.

[bigpaul]

cant agree, if the other person is better armed than you...and how do you know they arent?...you attack...your dead!! no 50/50 about it, better to go somewhere else thats abandoned and try your luck there instead..

[Timelord]

Should have done a risk assessment! lol.

[bigpaul]

your right there TL! best to watch and listen for a while first, if they are many in number and they've all got guns, better to go somewhere else.

[The Local Ned]

(8 June 2012, 11:05)grumpy old man Wrote: if you don't raid and need some thing you will die?

..if that omething is medicinal and time is of the essence , then , yes - death might be the outcome...

if you raid and win you live but could also lose

Sorry Grumpy - I don't understand this part mate , unless you mean that having raided someone - it might come back and bite you on the srae later -as we say.

a 50 / 50 change is better than no chance

Agreed !!

but don't worry to much or wonderful leaders will save us lol.

google - Churchills betrayal , St Valery , 51st Highland Division.

.

[grumpy old man]

some times if you need something and you can't get it through asking then you have to take it if someone you love could die if you don't have it then you have two choices watch them die or risk it? look at your other half or kids ? i guess the answer.
but we aren't stuiped we would watch for as long as we could then move we would make a plan only an idiot would walk straight up ?
and in all fairness i think the world would be a shitter place than now and if i knew i couldn't get it i would think of was to destroy the lot.
so i would have a 50 - 50 chance either i win or i die if i die then nothing else matters i would be out the picture better some chance than no chance.
yes the is always a risk in life some jobs you need to make people do what they don't wont and can get killed in the line but that's life and shit happens better to die a lion than live a life as a mouse
but that's just my views

[bigpaul]

i tend to think that i would rather live without something than die trying to obtain it, i think there will come a time when everything will run out anyway, fuel/tinned food/medicines, so what we need to do is to work out a way of living without these things, if we cant manufacture them ourselves then we need to consider alternatives like horse power/growing our own food, hunting gathering/ herbal remedies that sort of thing. having lived among the "alternative" communities around Glastonbury i tend to think there is always an alternative to violence, violence only begets more violence!

[Hrusai]

this is an odd question, the answers are both simple and complex, the simple version is preppers will learn, gather and prepare for the event before it happens, they will kill wildlife and if it comes to it people (depending on various factors, but i fervently believe we all have the capacity to kill and in a survival situation this will be tested, sooner or later.

a raider is a difficult concept to define, it can cover many things, both the insanity of societal collapse that twists normal people to abnormal behaviors such as a warped sense of self, loss of morality, delight in infliction of pain, willingness to steal and kill for your own (and your groups) gain, and many other things. a raider can also be a mindset, some sorts of people such as chavs (i know there are good ones but im working on stereotypes here, so no offence intended, i have mates who are chavs) who naturally band together and delight in substance abuse and acts of violence and expression of their "manliness".....personally i'd set a base definition of a raider as someone, or a group of people, who will turn to violence and theft more readily than honesty and trading...often they will become abusers of a variety of substances, rapists and sadists.

but by all means this is not a comprehensive description, in our very nature we are abstract beings and as such are difficult to define, we will know intrinisically what category people belong in, but describing why and how is another matter, just as a police officer knows some people are criminals, but cannot get enough evidence to define them as such according the rules, and also knows a person is honest but was driven to crime but can get enough evidence to satisify the laws description. we can all deduce very instinctively who is fundamentally bad and who is fundamentally good, granted it may not be a snap decision and in light of evidence these decisions can and often are reassessed for the most part we are for the most part correct.

at the end of the day we all have our seperate definitions of things, one mans raider is another mans survivalist doing what it takes to survive, its a matter of perspective, personal morals and governing laws, and experiences, and as such there is no such all encompassing definition, we all must decide for ourselves!