UK collective retreats

[bigpaul]

(7 July 2012, 21:39)Hrusai Wrote: i didnt say i was gonna rebuild it in the image of the old one did i?

if that is the case, please explain your idea for an alternative society, preferably one that does not put one person above another, either in class or education, but a level playing field for all mankind.

[Hrusai]

(8 July 2012, 10:44)bigpaul Wrote:

(7 July 2012, 21:39)Hrusai Wrote: i didnt say i was gonna rebuild it in the image of the old one did i?

if that is the case, please explain your idea for an alternative society, preferably one that does not put one person above another, either in class or education, but a level playing field for all mankind.

well there will be kinks to work out but personally i think a pragmatic and logical approach is simply the best idea, so for general decisions it would down to general consensus, but there would be lengthy debates on the others, whereupon their conclusion, there shall be a vote, either that or every decision and squabble would be solved by a roll of the dice, if lady luck is smiling then you win, this means that everyone would have an equal chance it'd be purely down to chance.

its a tough thing to answer because there is only one way of being totally fair, which is random luck, but that might not always be the best idea as some stupid decisions would get through, i guess there would have to be rules in place to prevent this as much as possible, but all these things give rise to central power groups and people that moniter and enforce the rules ....i guess we'd have to figure it out as we go along really, but theres a few ideas

otherwise main rules are, you get what you work for, if your bone idle, you dont eat, everyone pulls their weight, duties cycle

at the end of the day there is no perfect system that meets your ideals, because they give rise to an idealistic world, which simply isnt possible, and while i'd be happy to be proven wrong about this, until such day i guess ill remain cynical

[bigpaul]

there is only one system that would work and that is the tribal system, where everyone is of the same race, religion and upbringing, living in small villages each doing their own thing but all the villages come together in times of need, or maybe something like the Amish. i forsee a time when all the oil is gone/used up, there is no electric cos there is no one left who know how to mend it or maintain it, we will all be using horses and carts and living an agricultural lifestyle.

[Hrusai]

(8 July 2012, 14:01)bigpaul Wrote: there is only one system that would work and that is the tribal system, where everyone is of the same race, religion and upbringing, living in small villages each doing their own thing but all the villages come together in times of need, or maybe something like the Amish. i forsee a time when all the oil is gone/used up, there is no electric cos there is no one left who know how to mend it or maintain it, we will all be using horses and carts and living an agricultural lifestyle.

yes but you say a tribal system adheres to those ideals but it doesnt, women are relegated to cooking and cleaning, despite the fact they may have other skills like hunting, and the men are mostly hunters and providers, decisions are left down to the elders, whilst in many cases this is a fine system, it does leave deficits, and still misses some important aspects

[bigpaul]

(8 July 2012, 15:20)Hrusai Wrote:

(8 July 2012, 14:01)bigpaul Wrote: there is only one system that would work and that is the tribal system, where everyone is of the same race, religion and upbringing, living in small villages each doing their own thing but all the villages come together in times of need, or maybe something like the Amish. i forsee a time when all the oil is gone/used up, there is no electric cos there is no one left who know how to mend it or maintain it, we will all be using horses and carts and living an agricultural lifestyle.

yes but you say a tribal system adheres to those ideals but it doesnt, women are relegated to cooking and cleaning, despite the fact they may have other skills like hunting, and the men are mostly hunters and providers, decisions are left down to the elders, whilst in many cases this is a fine system, it does leave deficits, and still misses some important aspects

you are 18 years old, what woman you know is good at hunting? the tribal system works and has worked for thousands of years and is tried and tested.

[Hrusai]

i know many people that have an exceptionally diverse range of skills, and in fact i do know some women who are far sneakier and quicker than i am and also practise archery, so yes in some respects such women would do far better at hunting than i would!

im not saying it wouldnt work at all, merely that like any system it has its flaws, and we all came from tribal systems, therefore a tribal system is just as capable as any other of giving rise to the inequalities and elitism that are rife in current society.

and please dont think that just because i am only 18 i havent had much experience of the world, i've done and seen far more than a person of my age should have.

[NorthernRaider]

Some of the femme fatals I trained in the army were pretty crap at things like engagements at night, BUT set the bloody ladies out to set up and carry out an OP ( Observation post) and they rocked, they often gathered more in depth intel than the lads, I have no problems with female troops.

[bigpaul]

(8 July 2012, 17:46)NorthernRaider Wrote: Some of the femme fatals I trained in the army were pretty crap at things like engagements at night, BUT set the bloody ladies out to set up and carry out an OP ( Observation post) and they rocked, they often gathered more in depth intel than the lads, I have no problems with female troops.

neither do i have any problems with female troops, i'm talking about (civilian) females in general, most of them are too nesh( as we used to say when i lived oop north) to even put a worm on a hook and as for anything to do with hunting..some little fluffy bunny might get hurt...forget it!!

[NorthernRaider]

(8 July 2012, 17:52)bigpaul Wrote:

(8 July 2012, 17:46)NorthernRaider Wrote: Some of the femme fatals I trained in the army were pretty crap at things like engagements at night, BUT set the bloody ladies out to set up and carry out an OP ( Observation post) and they rocked, they often gathered more in depth intel than the lads, I have no problems with female troops.

neither do i have any problems with female troops, i'm talking about (civilian) females in general, most of them are too nesh( as we used to say when i lived oop north) to even put a worm on a hook and as for anything to do with hunting..some little fluffy bunny might get hurt...forget it!!

Aye like the cuddly wubbly huggy buns who freaked out when I said that after TSHTF and the water, sewage and waste systems fail that I would sterilise the area around my retreat of anything with fur or feathers to ensure Tiddles does not walk through sewer water then come indoors and walk on food prep surfaces.

[Timelord]

Hrusai wrote:-
"well there will be kinks to work out but personally i think a pragmatic and logical approach is simply the best idea, so for general decisions it would down to general consensus, but there would be lengthy debates on the others, whereupon their conclusion, there shall be a vote, either that or every decision and squabble would be solved by a roll of the dice, if lady luck is smiling then you win, this means that everyone would have an equal chance it'd be purely down to chance.

its a tough thing to answer because there is only one way of being "totally fair, which is random luck, but that might not always be the best idea as some stupid decisions would get through, i guess there would have to be rules in place to prevent this as much as possible, but all these things give rise to central power groups and people that moniter and enforce the rules ....i guess we'd have to figure it out as we go along really, but theres a few ideas

otherwise main rules are, you get what you work for, if your bone idle, you dont eat, everyone pulls their weight, duties cycle

at the end of the day there is no perfect system that meets your ideals, because they give rise to an idealistic world, which simply isnt possible, and while i'd be happy to be proven wrong about this, until such day i guess ill remain cynical"

****Please can you explain what any of this means? I Keep rereading it but it does not make any sense in relation to being an alternative type of society. Is the rolling dice/lady luck proposal for real? I do not see any coherent understanding of humanity, social interaction & historical precedence. Having an ideal and being idealistic are not the same thing.****


"and please dont think that just because i am only 18 i havent had much experience of the world, i've done and seen far more than a person of my age should have. "

WTF??