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LS Advice again please
1 August 2012, 07:24,
#21
RE: LS Advice again please
(31 July 2012, 23:14)Paul Wrote: NR,
Unfortunately radio can get complicated simply because simple isn't good enough for some.

I've always favoured the CB all in one kit for novices.
Rig, magmount, and aerial, all in one box.
An example for you.

http://www.ttiuk.net/TTI-STP1-CB-Starter-Pack.2.html

Simple to set up, simple to use. This is my current home and car setup.
An experienced radio engineer using a novices start up pack!!HuhHuh
WTF, why?
Why is because it does exactly what I want a CB to do. The basics.

Your handheld is a good example and a damn good choice too. Smile
Ideal for the car.
Just add a mag-mounted aerial and car kit for your handheld.
Tune it in with a basic SWR meter http://www.maplin.co.uk/swr-100-cb-meter-99533
and a simple patch lead http://www.maplin.co.uk/pl-259-patch-lead-32898
It's ideal when hiking too.
Battery charging? A Simple solar panel type.
After all you're only charging 6 AA batteries.

The complication comes when someone wants their "straight out of the box" gear to perform like professonal radio equipment and at megger high powers.

Big GrinBig Grin KEEP IT STUPIDLY SIMPLE Big GrinBig Grin

CB for me is a time proven system that works and as it's not broken, do what I do, DON'T FIX IT!

I 100% ech this.

Keep it simple.

Its not the absolute best solution we are after, it is the simplest solution that will sattisfice our needs.

LS
72 de

Lightspeed
26-SUKer-17

26-TM-580


STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
Reply
1 August 2012, 09:05, (This post was last modified: 1 August 2012, 09:09 by NorthernRaider.)
#22
RE: LS Advice again please
Ok folks I'm giving up on this, I'm going with the zero radio option as its just a complete faff to achieve anything and its no difficulty in not having a radio anyway.

A point i want you chaps to consider is the ROLE OF THE RADIO in your preps, I'm getting the distinct feeling that many of you think you will just be able to sit in your retreat on an evening waiting for calls. But I think the radios primary role will be providing comms from your own people to your own people. AFTER TSHTF I reckon most of your time will be spent scavenging, salvaging, patrolling, planting, ploughing, harvesting, digging, recceing, labouring and hiding. Whilst its highly likely the first few days of an event will see you using vehicle based radios and home base stations to get your family home and to find out whats going on, but after that your two way radio system is likely to be in the security role, IE comms tween patrols and folks salvaging or farming, ergo the main role will be for man portable radios.

Another point I think you need to consider is your order of priority, Your insisting on working out radio protocols, calling times, calling frequencies etc BEFORE you have chosen your radio kit. Guys that like teaching someone to shoot BEFORE you bought a rifle and ammo and only using a text book to show folks the best way to hit the target. Or learning archery by computer and the online lessons are about long bows but you plan on getting crossbows.

Have fun anyway Smile
(31 July 2012, 23:14)Paul Wrote: NR,
Unfortunately radio can get complicated simply because simple isn't good enough for some.

I've always favoured the CB all in one kit for novices.
Rig, magmount, and aerial, all in one box.
An example for you.

http://www.ttiuk.net/TTI-STP1-CB-Starter-Pack.2.html

Simple to set up, simple to use. This is my current home and car setup.
An experienced radio engineer using a novices start up pack!!HuhHuh
WTF, why?
Why is because it does exactly what I want a CB to do. The basics.

Your handheld is a good example and a damn good choice too. Smile
Ideal for the car.
Just add a mag-mounted aerial and car kit for your handheld.
Tune it in with a basic SWR meter http://www.maplin.co.uk/swr-100-cb-meter-99533
and a simple patch lead http://www.maplin.co.uk/pl-259-patch-lead-32898
It's ideal when hiking too.
Battery charging? A Simple solar panel type.
After all you're only charging 6 AA batteries.

The complication comes when someone wants their "straight out of the box" gear to perform like professonal radio equipment and at megger high powers.

Big GrinBig Grin KEEP IT STUPIDLY SIMPLE Big GrinBig Grin

CB for me is a time proven system that works and as it's not broken, do what I do, DON'T FIX IT!

Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile


Reply
1 August 2012, 13:20,
#23
RE: LS Advice again please
(1 August 2012, 09:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile

That's simple too NR.
People keep asking for more. Undecided

More advice, Huh
More options, Huh
More instructions & for Huh
More performance. Confused

If I'm asked, I give what I can.
It's a huge character fault in me.Sad

Reply
1 August 2012, 13:54,
#24
RE: LS Advice again please
I've made my requirements clear. If everyone put their requirements down then the tools will fall out of that. After all you shouldn't really be buying something and then finding a use for it unless it is really, really cheap.
Skean Dhude
-------------------------------
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
Reply
1 August 2012, 14:12, (This post was last modified: 1 August 2012, 14:13 by Hrusai.)
#25
RE: LS Advice again please
hell i know im going for a uv-5r myself, that will suit all of my needs fine, and its cheap and simple.
once ive got that and got used to it, ill start working radio protocols and such like, but im focusing on my pure survival skills for now Tongue it'll all come together in due course...and tbh if your fine without any communication and wanna go it totally alone, thats cool, its your choice, personally i'd like some communication with patrols and scavenging groups when they go out for supplies, so if problems arise, then they can be backed up...not to mention it could bring some useful supplies and trading opportunities.
and personally im glad we have such dedicated and helpful members who know their radio comms, without them i'd have a much harder time getting into it, but they've been fantastically helpful ^^
Reply
1 August 2012, 21:20,
#26
RE: LS Advice again please
(1 August 2012, 09:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile

NR - what you've been seeing over the past few weeks are clued up people doing their level best to second guess an infinite number of solutions to each and everyones standard radio comms setup.

The truth is - there is no holy grail - there is no single workable system that will get someone in Wales in regular contact with someone in Scotland outside of HAM equipment.

CB will be fine for nearly everyones local comms - <>5-10 mile range - but as with all radio comms - your geographical location will determine your coverage , and sometimes somebody will need a bit more power , on a different band , to be heard.

I've spent a lot of time looking at handsets , mobile units , antennas , and refreshing myself with up to date info on the best available gear , I know what I require now , and have tried to share some of my findings with all of you.

Your requirements may not be the same as mine , please heed this.

If you want an existing system , tried and tested - then go the UKFM CB route , it may not be perfect for some , but , things start getting complicated beyond this.


Trying very hard not to be paranoid.....and it aint getting easier.
Reply
1 August 2012, 21:32,
#27
RE: LS Advice again please
(1 August 2012, 21:20)The Local Ned Wrote:
(1 August 2012, 09:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile

NR - what you've been seeing over the past few weeks are clued up people doing their level best to second guess an infinite number of solutions to each and everyones standard radio comms setup.

The truth is - there is no holy grail - there is no single workable system that will get someone in Wales in regular contact with someone in Scotland outside of HAM equipment.

CB will be fine for nearly everyones local comms - <>5-10 mile range - but as with all radio comms - your geographical location will determine your coverage , and sometimes somebody will need a bit more power , on a different band , to be heard.

I've spent a lot of time looking at handsets , mobile units , antennas , and refreshing myself with up to date info on the best available gear , I know what I require now , and have tried to share some of my findings with all of you.

Your requirements may not be the same as mine , please heed this.

If you want an existing system , tried and tested - then go the UKFM CB route , it may not be perfect for some , but , things start getting complicated beyond this.

Yeah your spot on right mon ami, each of us has individually specific needs, I'm lucky I realised I dont need or want a radio system at all. Its oh so easy for us to get sucked along with the infectous enthuisiasm that is driving the radio comms issue along, it dawned on me that actually I dont really have any need for radios.


Reply
1 August 2012, 23:03,
#28
RE: LS Advice again please
(1 August 2012, 21:32)NorthernRaider Wrote:
(1 August 2012, 21:20)The Local Ned Wrote:
(1 August 2012, 09:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile

NR - what you've been seeing over the past few weeks are clued up people doing their level best to second guess an infinite number of solutions to each and everyones standard radio comms setup.

The truth is - there is no holy grail - there is no single workable system that will get someone in Wales in regular contact with someone in Scotland outside of HAM equipment.

CB will be fine for nearly everyones local comms - <>5-10 mile range - but as with all radio comms - your geographical location will determine your coverage , and sometimes somebody will need a bit more power , on a different band , to be heard.

I've spent a lot of time looking at handsets , mobile units , antennas , and refreshing myself with up to date info on the best available gear , I know what I require now , and have tried to share some of my findings with all of you.

Your requirements may not be the same as mine , please heed this.

If you want an existing system , tried and tested - then go the UKFM CB route , it may not be perfect for some , but , things start getting complicated beyond this.

Yeah your spot on right mon ami, each of us has individually specific needs, I'm lucky I realised I dont need or want a radio system at all. Its oh so easy for us to get sucked along with the infectous enthuisiasm that is driving the radio comms issue along, it dawned on me that actually I dont really have any need for radios.

Trouble is everyone wants a magic answer but radio aint that simple Sad

For short range handy comms (up to a couple of miles) PMR 446 is great, the sets are small, cheap, low powered but you're not going to get any distance (that can be a good thing for opsec).

For medium range (up to 20 miles + in good terrain or far less in bad terrain) then CB is great. I favour uk 27/81 fm as it is so readily available but we would need to look seriously at 12w ssb if they ever make it legal in this country.

We've all known people getting thousands of miles using cb (especially with a burner attached) but as LS pointed out this is down to 'skip' and is no use at all for covering the uk.

It's important to be able to use the kit legally otherwise we pack it away in a box and never test it until tshtf and find it doesn't work for some reason.

The one thing we don't seem to have covered is communicating across the uk and perhaps a little wider, you could ask why we'd want to.... I figure that we've made lots of contacts with fellow preppers but the trouble is that in this wonderful world of the internet they're spread out all over the country and I'm not gonna be able to contact them using CB so I want to find something that will work for a few hundred miles.

Unless there is something I've missed, the only way I can communicate across the uk is using two of the ham bands - 40m (7MHz) and 80m (3.5MHz) and an antenna set up for NVIS, sounds complicated but it isn't really.

To do this legally I need a ham licence - the foundation test is dead easy and allows you to use up to 10W straight away. Again - important to be able to use the kit before shtf or I'll find that post shtf everyone else is on different frequencies and I can't find them.

As for the radio, hf sets don't come cheap but they can be bought second hand for £150 or so if you get lucky. Another thought is to learn morse so that I can use a nice cheap low powered set (low power is important post shtf) that I can carry in my pocket.

Many people won't be interested in comms across the uk and will be happy with pmr 446 and cb to cover their needs but it would be really useful if enough of us get together with the kit to communicate across the country so that messages could be passed to and from other preppers in the area.

Cheers,
Martin
Reply
2 August 2012, 00:35, (This post was last modified: 2 August 2012, 01:02 by Lightspeed.)
#29
RE: LS Advice again please
(1 August 2012, 23:03)Martin200261 Wrote:
(1 August 2012, 21:32)NorthernRaider Wrote:
(1 August 2012, 21:20)The Local Ned Wrote:
(1 August 2012, 09:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile

NR - what you've been seeing over the past few weeks are clued up people doing their level best to second guess an infinite number of solutions to each and everyones standard radio comms setup.

The truth is - there is no holy grail - there is no single workable system that will get someone in Wales in regular contact with someone in Scotland outside of HAM equipment.

CB will be fine for nearly everyones local comms - <>5-10 mile range - but as with all radio comms - your geographical location will determine your coverage , and sometimes somebody will need a bit more power , on a different band , to be heard.

I've spent a lot of time looking at handsets , mobile units , antennas , and refreshing myself with up to date info on the best available gear , I know what I require now , and have tried to share some of my findings with all of you.

Your requirements may not be the same as mine , please heed this.

If you want an existing system , tried and tested - then go the UKFM CB route , it may not be perfect for some , but , things start getting complicated beyond this.

Yeah your spot on right mon ami, each of us has individually specific needs, I'm lucky I realised I dont need or want a radio system at all. Its oh so easy for us to get sucked along with the infectous enthuisiasm that is driving the radio comms issue along, it dawned on me that actually I dont really have any need for radios.

Trouble is everyone wants a magic answer but radio aint that simple Sad

For short range handy comms (up to a couple of miles) PMR 446 is great, the sets are small, cheap, low powered but you're not going to get any distance (that can be a good thing for opsec).

For medium range (up to 20 miles + in good terrain or far less in bad terrain) then CB is great. I favour uk 27/81 fm as it is so readily available but we would need to look seriously at 12w ssb if they ever make it legal in this country.

We've all known people getting thousands of miles using cb (especially with a burner attached) but as LS pointed out this is down to 'skip' and is no use at all for covering the uk.

It's important to be able to use the kit legally otherwise we pack it away in a box and never test it until tshtf and find it doesn't work for some reason.

The one thing we don't seem to have covered is communicating across the uk and perhaps a little wider, you could ask why we'd want to.... I figure that we've made lots of contacts with fellow preppers but the trouble is that in this wonderful world of the internet they're spread out all over the country and I'm not gonna be able to contact them using CB so I want to find something that will work for a few hundred miles.

Unless there is something I've missed, the only way I can communicate across the uk is using two of the ham bands - 40m (7MHz) and 80m (3.5MHz) and an antenna set up for NVIS, sounds complicated but it isn't really.

To do this legally I need a ham licence - the foundation test is dead easy and allows you to use up to 10W straight away. Again - important to be able to use the kit before shtf or I'll find that post shtf everyone else is on different frequencies and I can't find them.

As for the radio, hf sets don't come cheap but they can be bought second hand for £150 or so if you get lucky. Another thought is to learn morse so that I can use a nice cheap low powered set (low power is important post shtf) that I can carry in my pocket.

Many people won't be interested in comms across the uk and will be happy with pmr 446 and cb to cover their needs but it would be really useful if enough of us get together with the kit to communicate across the country so that messages could be passed to and from other preppers in the area.

Cheers,
Martin

Excellent round up of the situation Martin.

This is exactly in line whith what I am thinking.

There is no single solution, you are right.

At one extreme we have NVIS which willl reach from your back door out to 200 + miles. Excellent except it requires an antenna 20 or 40 meters long. Yes you can talk to your local contacts on it but its hardly portable.

At the other extreme are the highly portable and very simple PMR446 radios. These are ideal for keeping in touch with your contacts in the immediate neighbourhood, but they are not capable oflong range communications.

CB is between the two.

I've given the arguements for each of these three options. I hope those arguments are clear to understand.

It is down to each individual to decide what is right for them.

Next step is to publish a list of recommemded kit for each of the three solutions. People can then make up their minds on the basis oftheir range requirements, their maximum station size requirements, and their cost requirements.

Once decided we need to set frequencies to test on and agree set dates and times to conduct those tests.

LS

Regards

LS
(1 August 2012, 21:20)The Local Ned Wrote:
(1 August 2012, 09:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile

NR - what you've been seeing over the past few weeks are clued up people doing their level best to second guess an infinite number of solutions to each and everyones standard radio comms setup.

The truth is - there is no holy grail - there is no single workable system that will get someone in Wales in regular contact with someone in Scotland outside of HAM equipment.

CB will be fine for nearly everyones local comms - <>5-10 mile range - but as with all radio comms - your geographical location will determine your coverage , and sometimes somebody will need a bit more power , on a different band , to be heard.

I've spent a lot of time looking at handsets , mobile units , antennas , and refreshing myself with up to date info on the best available gear , I know what I require now , and have tried to share some of my findings with all of you.

Your requirements may not be the same as mine , please heed this.

If you want an existing system , tried and tested - then go the UKFM CB route , it may not be perfect for some , but , things start getting complicated beyond this.

Spot on TLN, and thank you.

You have:
* read the discussion,
* evaluated what you feel to be relavent to you,
* asked questions,
* compared answers to your existing knowledge,
* made your personal decision on what to do
* Acted on that decision.

That's taking ownership for your decisions, and something we all have to do in every aspect of our prepping.

Radio comms is just like anything else. There is no right size fits all solution. Solid knowledge takes away some of the uncertainty and allows us to make informed decisions.

LS


(1 August 2012, 09:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Ok folks I'm giving up on this, I'm going with the zero radio option as its just a complete faff to achieve anything and its no difficulty in not having a radio anyway.

A point i want you chaps to consider is the ROLE OF THE RADIO in your preps, I'm getting the distinct feeling that many of you think you will just be able to sit in your retreat on an evening waiting for calls. But I think the radios primary role will be providing comms from your own people to your own people. AFTER TSHTF I reckon most of your time will be spent scavenging, salvaging, patrolling, planting, ploughing, harvesting, digging, recceing, labouring and hiding. Whilst its highly likely the first few days of an event will see you using vehicle based radios and home base stations to get your family home and to find out whats going on, but after that your two way radio system is likely to be in the security role, IE comms tween patrols and folks salvaging or farming, ergo the main role will be for man portable radios.

Another point I think you need to consider is your order of priority, Your insisting on working out radio protocols, calling times, calling frequencies etc BEFORE you have chosen your radio kit. Guys that like teaching someone to shoot BEFORE you bought a rifle and ammo and only using a text book to show folks the best way to hit the target. Or learning archery by computer and the online lessons are about long bows but you plan on getting crossbows.

Have fun anyway Smile
(31 July 2012, 23:14)Paul Wrote: NR,
Unfortunately radio can get complicated simply because simple isn't good enough for some.

I've always favoured the CB all in one kit for novices.
Rig, magmount, and aerial, all in one box.
An example for you.

http://www.ttiuk.net/TTI-STP1-CB-Starter-Pack.2.html

Simple to set up, simple to use. This is my current home and car setup.
An experienced radio engineer using a novices start up pack!!HuhHuh
WTF, why?
Why is because it does exactly what I want a CB to do. The basics.

Your handheld is a good example and a damn good choice too. Smile
Ideal for the car.
Just add a mag-mounted aerial and car kit for your handheld.
Tune it in with a basic SWR meter http://www.maplin.co.uk/swr-100-cb-meter-99533
and a simple patch lead http://www.maplin.co.uk/pl-259-patch-lead-32898
It's ideal when hiking too.
Battery charging? A Simple solar panel type.
After all you're only charging 6 AA batteries.

The complication comes when someone wants their "straight out of the box" gear to perform like professonal radio equipment and at megger high powers.

Big GrinBig Grin KEEP IT STUPIDLY SIMPLE Big GrinBig Grin

CB for me is a time proven system that works and as it's not broken, do what I do, DON'T FIX IT!

Makes sense to me, so why have we just spent bloody weeks waffling on about HAM, PMR , CB and every other possible permutation? Why did you folks just say " We are the Hamburgers and CB is the easiest way to go?

Theres about forty threads posted recently talking about anything EXCEPT the simplest option ??? Smile

Hi NR

Waffling on?

Can I ask you to read teh Musts Shoulds Coulds thread again?

Its pretty much to the point and I hope covers all options open to us.

The ground is being covered carefully to allow friends to decide what they need. My recommendation is that we need all three. But I recognise that not everyone has the motivation nor is willing to justify the time and cost in setting them all up.

Those of us who do set up all will have the most flexible systems. we might choose to use the overlapping capabilities to connect non compatible groups together. It is wrong to assume taht because someone has capability in all three areas that they will use that capability for the common good. They may and they may not.

Sorry to see you drop out of the coms network discussions though NR, as it was you who broke the inertia and got things moving.

LS

72 de

Lightspeed
26-SUKer-17

26-TM-580


STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
Reply
2 August 2012, 09:51,
#30
RE: LS Advice again please
I'm interested in a prepper comms system, but fortunately not tied to or reliant on one, so I guess I'm lucky I can set aside this subject and focus on other issues, it will be good to see a universally accepted very basic standard be agreed on what ever that will be. I'll just keep reading and learning from the experts and see what you come up with.

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