Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets'

[Lightspeed]

(7 November 2012, 13:19)Scythe13 Wrote:

(7 November 2012, 12:43)bigpaul Wrote: better to know who is in your area before they find you!

I completely agree with that. But I'm unsure HOW that is going to be possible?!?!? I'd love to have an early warning system, and stuff like that. I'd love to see them coming, so that I can watch them and work out their intentions (if possible), but that's really unlikely to happen. They'll notice you before you notice them, in at least 90% of the occurrences!

As LS said, it's a thought he hadn't looked into.

With prepping there is an element of fantasy. That's a fact, and it's very hard to stay level headed and logical. The people best at doing that (that I've met in person) are SD and Terry. Both have a very logical look on things and they see stuff I've never considered. I'm not kissing butt, but I am promoting where it's due. I've not met all the preppers on here, so I'm not knocking anyone else.

This element of fantasy is clear in all of us. Yes, even me...would you think it?!?!? haha.

The thing is, when you break things down into a logical system, that's when issues arise. The idea of being shot by an arrow....damn that's going to hurt! Anyone that says it'll kill me.....what basis is that statement on? How many people have you shot with an arrow? Have you tried shooting a moving target and getting a one shot kill? I have no doubt that it will fricking hurt like mad. But one arrow probably won't take most people down and kill them straight out. More than likely they'll be hurt, but probably not a one shot kill. I'm just as guilty with the fantasy view, so I'm not having a go at anyone.


The logical vs theoretical prepping argument is HUGE when looking at this WROL issue.

As preppers, we plan to survive, farm, harvest, and generally live an agrarian lifestyle. That lifestyle means....you're going to be f**king busy all day!!! Gathering/filtering water, hunting, butchering, farming, building, cooking, collecting/chopping fire wood, making arrows, making fire, home-brewing, and loads of other things. As a result, we're not going to have time scouting a 360 degree horizon. But who has a totally flat horizon? We'll be looking up and down as well!!!

If you're bugging out to a BOL, or your home is a BOL, it's very likely your home is going to be seen from a distance!!! Can anyone else see the issue here? You WILL be seen before you see them!!! I'm not hugely sure that'll be debatable.

Imagine it the other way round. You're wondering around, in a WROL setting. Do you think you're going to see a house in the distance? You're dressed in camo, or dark colours. You're aware that you could well get attacked, and so are probably carrying your knife/bow/gun with you. Do you think you'll see the house, hear someone chopping wood, see a f**king road or path leading somewhere? Of course you would. No point underestimating sheeple. Yes they are dumb, but then again, they can't all be dumb, because there will be people with eyes that can see a house in the distance!

With that in mind, the whole BOL situation changes, in my opinion.

---

This change means that anyone approaching, is either desperate, genuinely interested in helping, carrying news, or part of a wolf-pack of hunters.

With this in mind, everything changes.

You can shoot at them, you can pretend you're not home....but they heard the chopping, they can see the smoke, they can see your farmed fields, they hear that dog/cow/sheep/baby.

You're going to have confrontations up close and personal. They might just be looking for a bit of water on their way somewhere else. Who knows. But looking over a horizon 24/7, even if it's between 3 people, is going to be hard going!!!

Do you engage? How do you know their intentions? If you let them go, will they tell others of your location? Are they bringing news of your whereabouts? What's the situation? You can't tell, until you're face to face speaking, and even that might not be enough. Maybe they're from a fellow prepping group and are looking to barter?!?!? We all have barter items. What for, if we're not going to interact with people outside of our group/team?

First thoughts starting to gel.

Prepper 1 stated that 100% vigilence is needed for 1st 6 months.

Regardless of if it 3 months 6 months or a year, he's right thatthe greatest danger is immedioately post full collapse. Until there is a big die my original plan to lie low still looks best for me.

Like S13, I'm not sure how my group would have enough energy to man permanent lookouts 24/7. I've done it in the past and if done with serious intent its a gruelling process even after a few days. I cannot imagine being able to maintain it for 6 months.

[Prepper1]

Military training is Not necessary, beneficial yes but not necessary.
You'd have to be on high alert ALL of the time, eyes and ears like a shite hawk, regardless of the exhaustion.

Its just something weve got to do and get past as lightspeed said and hope for a big die off so we can relax a bit.

I suppose there is no set answer scythe.

You either take the chance with somebody and trust them bit by bit or kill them outright, you'd have to do that whether you liked the idea or not because they'd go off and tell somebody else, then where'd you be?

BUT could you ever fully trust them?

What if the came across another of their family members who they thought had been wiped out...
Would they them turn on you?
I think so.

As the saying goes "you pays your money then you makes the choice"
Then you have to live or die with the consequences...

---

I think the choice to trust a stranger is deeply personal, problematic set of circumstances.
Whats right now may not be right then or the next day.
That guy, girl or child could be the best thing to happen to your group or the worst.

[Scythe13]

(7 November 2012, 13:56)Prepper1 Wrote: I think the choice to trust a stranger is deeply personal, problematic set of circumstances.
Whats right now may not be right then or the next day.
That guy, girl or child could be the best thing to happen to your group or the worst.

I completely agree. But that's where the original question is posed. Do we, as those that are prepared, have a moral obligation to help those we can?

Those we help, are more likely to join the group and work with us, as they are to turn against us. The average person (aside from NR's neighbours) is good and will be looking for guidance, routine, support, and help. That is the start of the resurgence of community. Which is what is required to happen for 'civilisation' to be reestablished.

If in a rural area, it would make sense to give them a plot, near by, but within watchable distance. Have them fed, but also guarded, and see how they get on with things. I'd give them a place to live (away from the main group) and I'd have them watched by 2 people in the group. With that in mind, over time they'll learn skills like farming, wood cutting, and the alike. That means....you have a neighbour, and the Amish style community has begun. Over time, you'll trust them more, and they'll not become dependent on you and what you have. If they're not dependent on you, they're much more likely to become a team member and appreciate the things you're working towards. The reestablishment of civilisation, lifestyle, and the alike.

I genuinely believe this to be the situation and our obligation. However, each person that comes across us will be viewed separately and taken how they are. Some will be sent away, some may well be killed, but some will be looked after and cared for....from a distance.

[Prepper1]

civilization is after all only a thin veneer ready to be stripped away at the least prompting.
Look what happens it Mali, Afghanistan, Iran, Iran etc...
And that's with the world watching them, how'd you think people would be if NOBODY was watching or punishing them?
I may look on the dark side and that's because I've seen the dark side and its a very brutal, uncaring, evil place.
If you don't already know what humans are capable of just look at what the drug cartels do to each other when they catch a rival...
How'd you fancy a stranger doing that to your missus or kids...

Deep down I think all preppers are caring and considerate by nature, even N.R's and his grumpy old man persona slips sometimes and we see the teddy bear underneath but during wrol and with a family to protect, I have no reason to go against N.R. being the biggest coldest bastard out there, same for most of us I feel.
I'm not sure the benefits of helping somebody outweigh the very possible terminal effects if I misjudged their character.

---

Sure you could off them if they offed your missus or kids, but could you live with the fact if they did that because you trusted them over the welfare of your family or group?

---

Morals are sure to get you killed in wrol.
Morally its wrong to kill.
Morally you should help all worse off than yourself.

morals are a slippery slope.

Morals are useless when your trying to deflect the arrows that somebody's firing at you because they found your bol because you gave a stranger food.

Morals are useless when that stranger you let in slits your family's throats after 6 months of you feeding and caring for them.

But then again what if that strangers a first aider or nurse or doctor or vet?

doesn't mean they're not psychotic though....

[bigpaul]

i'm laughing at the thought that people can be trusted! they cant NOW, after TSHTF that will go 10 fold...as for the notion that you take them in because "one day" "society" will arise again...that could be sometime, maybe never, could be a lot of time in the future, like i've already said before, anyone you take in WITHOUT stores of their own is going to diminish how long YOUR stocks last and the more people you take in the less time your stores will last.

---

i think the first 6 months AFTER TSHTF i'd be very surprised if anyone is planting, harvesting etc. they'll more like be keeping their head down and SURVIVING....anyone that has survived whatever "the event" was anyway, keeping a low profile, making no noise or smell, keeping out of sight, but monitoring their area to see who is about, i will be putting out booby traps..nothing lethal just something for them to fall over or into so i CAN hear them coming maybe doing some small scale planting within the BOL, gathering wood and checking snares, but nothing that keeps me from "base" for any length of time. you see i "trust" no one, that way i wont be disappointed.

[NorthernRaider]

Civilised behavour in Britain dont make me laugh, Tottenham riots last August said it all, Police in Rochdale conspiring to ignore huge numbers of child abuse claims naaa if the excretia hits the propeller civilised behavour like morality will go out the door quickly followed by eqyual rights and most concepts of tolerance.

[Prepper1]

i think the first 6 months AFTER TSHTF i'd be very surprised if anyone is planting, harvesting etc. they'll more like be keeping their head down and SURVIVING....anyone that has survived whatever "the event" was anyway, keeping a low profile, making no noise or smell, keeping out of sight, but monitoring their area to see who is about, i will be putting out booby traps..nothing lethal just something for them to fall over or into so i CAN hear them coming maybe doing some small scale planting within the BOL, gathering wood and checking snares, but nothing that keeps me from "base" for any length of time. you see i "trust" no one, that way i wont be disappointed.
[/quote]
Sounds like the right way to me.

[Lightspeed]

(7 November 2012, 15:34)Prepper1 Wrote: i think the first 6 months AFTER TSHTF i'd be very surprised if anyone is planting, harvesting etc. they'll more like be keeping their head down and SURVIVING....anyone that has survived whatever "the event" was anyway, keeping a low profile, making no noise or smell, keeping out of sight, but monitoring their area to see who is about, i will be putting out booby traps..nothing lethal just something for them to fall over or into so i CAN hear them coming maybe doing some small scale planting within the BOL, gathering wood and checking snares, but nothing that keeps me from "base" for any length of time. you see i "trust" no one, that way i wont be disappointed.

Sounds like the right way to me.

[/quote]

I'm with you on this.

head down and minimal / zero visible signs left to scavengers of my presence.

[Scythe13]

I hear what you're saying Prepper1, and I agree in part with what you're saying.

Instead of being optimistic, or pessimistic, I try to figure out that the vast majority of the people you come across will be good people, just looking to survive, same as we are. Gradual integration into the group makes sense. If I was rejected from a group, then managed to build a community. You're damn right we'd get revenge on the rejectors!!! Then we'd have everything they once did.

At heart, I'm a very good person. But if someone dared screw with me or my family/team, I wouldn't have an issue skinning them alive and posting them on a stick with a sign saying "We are peaceful, but don't try to F**K with us!!!" haha.

---

If the case is "Trust nobody" and "Keep human contact as small as possible." Then why bother getting barter items?

[NorthernRaider]

Kill em all and let god sort them out.