uk econmy

[bigpaul]

(6 December 2012, 12:29)Tartar Horde Wrote: I hear ya BigPaul it is all starting to look a little frayed at the edges isn't it. But i am quite optimistic really, as you look back through History you find that ALL civilizations crash and burn eventually, and why should we be surprised that ours will go the same way? We will adapt and survive I have no doubts about that. Who knows, next time we might get it right eh

yes, i quite agree, people who think that this civilisation will survive where all the others before didnt is really living in "cloud cuckoo land", i think its just a matter of time before it all comes crashing down around our ears, if we want to survive THAT then we have to be ready for it.

[Scythe13]

I agree with you TH. Providing the resource is a physical product, growth would be capped. But imagine if you could sell knowledge. We can, and we do, and that could well be infinite. Having said that, human stupidity is infinite as well, and we sell that too, as entertainment.

If we reached a happy medium, in regard to physical production, recycled everything, and found effective uses for what we have, we may not reach infinite growth and development, but we wouldn't be far off.

Knowledge could be packaged, sold, and distributed in a seemingly infinite system. But, this system we have is finite. Power from the sun is in theory infinite (only in the sense that it will last as long as we do, and when the sun dies, we will be long gone) in regard to human existence. We could thus 'infinitely' power some form of electrical data sharing system, like the internet. Then, providing people were able to move away from the stupid, we would be able to infinitely expand our understanding.

I was actually thinking along these lines recently. I spend loads of time in the gym, getting healthier, stronger, faster, fitter, better endurance, and all the rest. But it got me thinking, how much time do I dedicate to increasing my intellect, knowledge, memory, calculating ability, critical thinking systems, and the alike. Guess whose going to start meditating and doing stuff like that? Damn right. But that's not the point.

If we were to move away from a physical system and more onto a knowledge based worker system, as Drucker says we already are on, then it would be possible to grown an economy.....providing there is a customer base desiring the products.

Note, this is entirely flawed in the principle that there would need to be a cull of the population and restrictions on the physical allotment/rationing of items/property/food/etc. But the possibility of infinite growth is as sound in principle as communism haha.

[Tartar Horde]

(6 December 2012, 12:59)Scythe13 Wrote: I agree with you TH. Providing the resource is a physical product, growth would be capped. But imagine if you could sell knowledge. We can, and we do, and that could well be infinite. Having said that, human stupidity is infinite as well, and we sell that too, as entertainment.

If we reached a happy medium, in regard to physical production, recycled everything, and found effective uses for what we have, we may not reach infinite growth and development, but we wouldn't be far off.

Knowledge could be packaged, sold, and distributed in a seemingly infinite system. But, this system we have is finite. Power from the sun is in theory infinite (only in the sense that it will last as long as we do, and when the sun dies, we will be long gone) in regard to human existence. We could thus 'infinitely' power some form of electrical data sharing system, like the internet. Then, providing people were able to move away from the stupid, we would be able to infinitely expand our understanding.

I was actually thinking along these lines recently. I spend loads of time in the gym, getting healthier, stronger, faster, fitter, better endurance, and all the rest. But it got me thinking, how much time do I dedicate to increasing my intellect, knowledge, memory, calculating ability, critical thinking systems, and the alike. Guess whose going to start meditating and doing stuff like that? Damn right. But that's not the point.

If we were to move away from a physical system and more onto a knowledge based worker system, as Drucker says we already are on, then it would be possible to grown an economy.....providing there is a customer base desiring the products.

Note, this is entirely flawed in the principle that there would need to be a cull of the population and restrictions on the physical allotment/rationing of items/property/food/etc. But the possibility of infinite growth is as sound in principle as communism haha.

Knowledge and the ability to use it is our greatest advantage, and I believe will ultimately be our saving grace.

[Scythe13]

(6 December 2012, 13:58)Tartar Horde Wrote:

(6 December 2012, 12:59)Scythe13 Wrote: I agree with you TH. Providing the resource is a physical product, growth would be capped. But imagine if you could sell knowledge. We can, and we do, and that could well be infinite. Having said that, human stupidity is infinite as well, and we sell that too, as entertainment.

If we reached a happy medium, in regard to physical production, recycled everything, and found effective uses for what we have, we may not reach infinite growth and development, but we wouldn't be far off.

Knowledge could be packaged, sold, and distributed in a seemingly infinite system. But, this system we have is finite. Power from the sun is in theory infinite (only in the sense that it will last as long as we do, and when the sun dies, we will be long gone) in regard to human existence. We could thus 'infinitely' power some form of electrical data sharing system, like the internet. Then, providing people were able to move away from the stupid, we would be able to infinitely expand our understanding.

I was actually thinking along these lines recently. I spend loads of time in the gym, getting healthier, stronger, faster, fitter, better endurance, and all the rest. But it got me thinking, how much time do I dedicate to increasing my intellect, knowledge, memory, calculating ability, critical thinking systems, and the alike. Guess whose going to start meditating and doing stuff like that? Damn right. But that's not the point.

If we were to move away from a physical system and more onto a knowledge based worker system, as Drucker says we already are on, then it would be possible to grown an economy.....providing there is a customer base desiring the products.

Note, this is entirely flawed in the principle that there would need to be a cull of the population and restrictions on the physical allotment/rationing of items/property/food/etc. But the possibility of infinite growth is as sound in principle as communism haha.

Knowledge and the ability to use it is our greatest advantage, and I believe will ultimately be our saving grace.

I hate myself for saying this, but I really believe that it won't be. I think it'll end up being our downfall. I'd love to believe we'll push through this stupidity, but we don't have that kind of attitude/mentality.

I hope I'm wrong though.

[Tartar Horde]

(6 December 2012, 14:22)Scythe13 Wrote:

(6 December 2012, 13:58)Tartar Horde Wrote:

(6 December 2012, 12:59)Scythe13 Wrote: I agree with you TH. Providing the resource is a physical product, growth would be capped. But imagine if you could sell knowledge. We can, and we do, and that could well be infinite. Having said that, human stupidity is infinite as well, and we sell that too, as entertainment.

If we reached a happy medium, in regard to physical production, recycled everything, and found effective uses for what we have, we may not reach infinite growth and development, but we wouldn't be far off.

Knowledge could be packaged, sold, and distributed in a seemingly infinite system. But, this system we have is finite. Power from the sun is in theory infinite (only in the sense that it will last as long as we do, and when the sun dies, we will be long gone) in regard to human existence. We could thus 'infinitely' power some form of electrical data sharing system, like the internet. Then, providing people were able to move away from the stupid, we would be able to infinitely expand our understanding.

I was actually thinking along these lines recently. I spend loads of time in the gym, getting healthier, stronger, faster, fitter, better endurance, and all the rest. But it got me thinking, how much time do I dedicate to increasing my intellect, knowledge, memory, calculating ability, critical thinking systems, and the alike. Guess whose going to start meditating and doing stuff like that? Damn right. But that's not the point.

If we were to move away from a physical system and more onto a knowledge based worker system, as Drucker says we already are on, then it would be possible to grown an economy.....providing there is a customer base desiring the products.

Note, this is entirely flawed in the principle that there would need to be a cull of the population and restrictions on the physical allotment/rationing of items/property/food/etc. But the possibility of infinite growth is as sound in principle as communism haha.

Knowledge and the ability to use it is our greatest advantage, and I believe will ultimately be our saving grace.

I hate myself for saying this, but I really believe that it won't be. I think it'll end up being our downfall. I'd love to believe we'll push through this stupidity, but we don't have that kind of attitude/mentality.

I hope I'm wrong though.

So is it fair to say you adhere to the "Olduvai Gorge" theory of the future of our species? A brief synopsis being a total loss of all our current technology and way of life, resulting in a post industrial or possibly stone age existence, with no hope of attaining advanced technology again?
I believe there will be great upheavals in all world societies unfortunately leading to many deaths, I also believe many of the World institutions will fail causing chaos. I agree with the Olduvai Gorge theory on this, but I differ on the final outcome. I honestly believe we will as a species come out of the crash with a whole different world view, I'm no rosy eyed utopianist and understand the lessons of History, but I think we will finally work it out and eventually get off this rock